Utopia Talk / Movie Talk / alien covenant

The Children Member	Thu May 18 06:02:21 so the time is here, i went 2 see it. was it worth my blood sweat and tears moniez? im mixed on this bitch. on the one hand, had they released this in 2012 instead of promethesucks, then yea, this is exactly what all alien fans have been askin for. they brought back many of the old alien movies stuff that we luv so much. but at the same time, 2017 and for a prometheus "sequel", its kinda mediocre. for instance, it was not scary at all no scary alien stuff like in alien 1 or aliens. and many of the chapters were kinda predictable. even the biggest plothole event, i saw it long before they revealed it. and the plot seems like hastily written. i mean they didnt really answer alot of the questions. halfway through the movie it wuld seem they answered it but then ur like oh wait they didnt. at the same time ur kinda glad it has this alien vibe, although i must say its kinda unoriginal. it wulda been original if this was the original prometheus. if this was prometheus in 2012...hands down, everyone wuldve been happy. but it is not. it is 2017 and for that it feels kinda like a shovelware, like they copy and pasted prometheus... for that i must rate it down. 7 out of 10
McKobb Member	Thu May 18 22:05:15 Game over, man!
The Children Member	Fri May 19 02:12:28 so after thinkin bout it some more. heres what i liked - the hippie prometheus bullshit is gone u know like the bad actin, the makers bullshit, all that surreal weyland, david mother, father bullshit - straight 2 the point, it starts kinda slow but it moves fast once shit hits the breaks. - the characters r meats, literally u dunt know half of them and half of them will be dead before u even know them. - the crazy black stuff was like the michlodorians (whatever) from star wars. they finally explained what this is and now it is plausible lol what i dunt like - was quite predictable - they didnt explain all that shit and even though shaw was a bad character, still her role in alien was so small, it was like they killed her off just coz promethesucks sucked. -i dunt like how they turned the alien mythos and story. i mean they put the alien twist into it in such a way where im like "no bro, why". coz we get 2 see the alien was created/ born/ came 2 be. and i dunt like it.
Cherub Cow Member	Sat May 20 04:02:09 "the crazy black stuff was like the michlodorians (whatever) from star wars. they finally explained what this is and now it is plausible lol" They explained that in Prometheus, though... near the end of Prometheus, if it hadn't been clear for the audience already, Idris Elba's character reveals that the purpose of that planet's laboratories was to manufacture a weaponized virus. What was less clear was whether or not Earth was merely one of many worlds seeded by the Engineers for the purpose of testing that virus (or just one world which they sampled often), or if the virus was developed specifically to kill Earth's population (like a cap on Earth's growth? A way to keep Earth useful for experiments and prevent it from becoming a threat?). Relevant details from Prometheus: • The Engineers seeded Earth with RNA/DNA • The Engineers re-visited Earth in its ancient history and provided early humans with a map to the testing planet (as opposed to providing a map to the Engineer home world) • Sometime in the 1st century CE, the Engineers at the testing planet were preparing to re-visit Earth, but they experienced an outbreak and died • The virus/goo was shown to target Engineers, humans, and even worms — any complex host — and the goo could further develop through cross-infection granting more genetic material (like taking over a worm, then a human, to become a powerful and crazed human; or taking over a male human, then infecting a female human egg, then infecting a male Engineer to become a classic xenomorph). • On the testing planet, the Engineers had a mural of the classic "Alien" (1979) alien, so the Engineers probably were already aware of how far the virus could develop in the proper host (including face-huggers and eggs) At the end of Prometheus, Shaw and David prepare to head to the Engineer home world. Shaw still wants to know why the Engineers would make humans only to kill them, but at that point the narrative still seems to say that Earth was seeded to provide test subjects for the Engineers (i.e., that humans really were just lab mice for the Engineers). David seems to understand this latter possibility, but he likes that Shaw can see that he has his own will (she doesn't treat him as a servant). (( Alien:Covenant SPOILERS! )) Review time! Settings, Filming Looks like they moved from Iceland locations (featured in "Prometheus") to New Zealand this time. Very kewl locations. It may have been less striking than "Prometheus", but there was some very nice Scott-style cinematography, like the opening scene's reflective floors for instance. Effects and Sets Really liked the gore effects! It seems like they erred on the side of real props before adding the CGI. The aliens seemed a little too digital in many scenes, though apparently they did use real actors in suits for some of it. I wouldn't have minded if they'd slowed down the creature speed, which was more like Alien3 than Alien or Aliens (fast almost for the sake of fast). And I liked the detail on the tower sets especially (all of those drawings, scroll racks, etc.). Main Plot I had a lot of complaints about the way things developed. Simple things like how the colonists hardly used quarantine/contamination protocols (e.g., going right out of the ship with masks off after landing), or how they kept splitting up even when they knew that there was danger afoot (like the tower scene). On those points, I wonder if the Weyland corporation would make sure that colonists would make bad decisions like that (under-training them) because their colonists were really just test subjects, but that might not be a thing yet in this branch of the story's universe. Some scenes also looked like they were thrown in just to have an "Alien" feel, like the loading dock /airlock scene and that random shower scene. And I agree with TC that the twist was very predictable. As soon as they cut away from David and Walter's fight, it was pretty obvious how that was going to go. At the moment I'm not sure how they could have fixed that to get the effect that they wanted (it was supposed to be terrifying that Daniels had learned the truth after having been locked in a capsule). Complaints aside, the plot facilitated some interesting scenes. One in particular: when David has an alien standing right in front of him (scene with Oram behind him), there was a vibe of familiarity, which made me wonder if that alien was supposed to be from Shaw's DNA. Cast I'm not sure that Katherine Waterston (Daniels) was stand-out enough. She may make more sense on a second watch, but the editor removed some of her scenes, which made it almost surprising to me when she became a central figure later in the movie. Danny McBride was a risk, but it looks like they controlled him. Mysteries Sadly, not much more was examined in Covenant when it comes to answering Engineer mysteries. David's meddling on the Engineer home world allowed the black substance to go from airborne directly to parasite growth (body-bursting aliens that did not need an intermediary step; infection going straight to body-bursting). And he created those eggs somehow (maybe he harvested eggs from Shaw and then infected them?), which allowed face-huggers to create chest-bursting aliens. But the movie didn't really care to explain the "why" behind the Engineers' motives, and very little was explained about the Engineer civilization. They also added more holes that I doubt will be explained. Some of it may be minor and some of it may be explained in deleted scenes, but so far: • This may be a Star Trek curiosity, but I wonder why the Engineers were all gathered for David's ship's arrival. Filling in the blanks, David could probably have convinced them to gather for his trap, but that convincing scene would have been an interested moment to see. If he didn't need to convince them and it was simply the ship's autopilot, then I wonder for what sorts of things the Engineers usually gather (New advancements? Food? Shot glasses from Hard Rock cafés across the universe?). It could have just been that the people were made aware of the arrival of a 2000-year-old ship.. • Did Shaw actually die in the crash like David claimed, or is the audience supposed to think that David killed her? David's ship apparently docked and released the virus, but it also apparently crashed nearby (shot by the Engineers?), so maybe he was telling the truth. • There must be other Engineer worlds, but I wonder if they'll be a focus at all.. Particularly strange was that David had wiped out the Engineers on their [supposed?] home world only 10 years before the Covenant's arrival, but the Covenant crew found little evidence of the Engineers aside from some cultivated fields and the Engineers' main circle area. That area was apparently surrounded by homes, but none of it was explored for evidence or artifacts. It's kind of unfortunate if audiences just have to accept that the Engineers didn't develop their technology much beyond where it was 2000+ years before (though a species could certainly have decided that there was more to existence than endlessly developing tech), and it's even more unfortunate that the franchise seems to have killed the Engineers altogether without answering a question or two first. That does go with the theme of the movie, though! Thematic Carry-Over Right off the start the religious stuff carried over from Prometheus, but this time the outcome message changed. The characters in Prometheus had differing levels of fatherly love/hate (parents being "models for 'God'", this was symbolic of "parental" relationships that people have with their deities, like an imperative to destroy the myth of god by overcoming parents) — e.g., David being disappointed by Weyland not having a creator's answers but David hoping for some sense of place via servitude or some consolation by meeting the Engineers, Shaw having loved her father (her "god" model) and sort of hoping to find some god-confirmation by meeting her Engineers/"creators", and Vickers wanting Weyland outright dead so that she can move on without him (freedom via the death of a "god"/tyrant). In "Covenant" this starts again with Weyland dismissing molecular evolution outright (it doesn't satisfy his religious need for a god/creator), but David sits in the room and is skeptical/resistant; he is very much a bio-machine with a consciousness that did not result from a god-myth — he was made by a fallible human and already is stronger and more intelligent than that human. Luckily, this time instead of the movie following a Shaw-type (religious, needing a father figure), the story focuses more on David, who takes the role of Milton's "Paradise Lost" Satan-revolutionary (David outright quotes Paradise Lost when saying, "Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven." ... The author of this poor Vox article seems not to understand this role of Milton's Satan as a *revolutionary*: http://www...r-satan-paradise-lost-spoilers ). The writers also reveal that David was suffering from corrupted programming (via that note about Shelley and Byron; David had forgotten the actual source of the "Ozymandias" quotation), which gives David a megalomaniacal edge. So the story continues from "Prometheus" having stolen the fire of the gods (literally: the ship in the "Prometheus" movie having allowed David to steal the power of the Engineers — their black goo/virus — and allowed him to use it for his own genetic projects and for the destruction of these 'gods'; figuratively: David consciously using his free will to create from his own impulses, and David refusing to simply serve his intended programming). In short, David realizes that to be free of the tyranny created by gods (his servitude to Weyland, to humans, and even to the Engineers via an expectation that they would somehow be 'greater'), he must oppose and destroy them ("if God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him" — Bakounine). This explains David's wish to kill the Engineers before having had a word with them: even putting aside that the surviving Engineer in "Prometheus" attacked the group without speaking to any of then (something which would put David on the offensive), David knows that approaching the Engineers as gods would *make* them gods — it would give them an opportunity to rule (not very diplomatic in a Star Trek sense, but thematically appropriate). On this subject it's also fun that David guides Oram to a face-hugger egg because, similar to Shaw, Oram has a misplaced god belief that brings him to the face-hugger chamber to find answers to Engineer mysteries (David had also made a comment to another character about "curiosity [killing] the cat]"). Oram thinks that his faith in father/'God'-figures will reward him, but instead he becomes a test subject for David, much like Weyland thought that he would be rewarded with everlasting life by going to his Engineer/God in "Prometheus" but finding instead that his god myths were traps meant to use or destroy him (gods as illusions which enable slavery). That could be why the Engineers gave directions to the test planet instead of their home world — "come here to die as slaves". So it again makes sense why David would kill the Engineers outright; as a David opposite in this respect, Oram is the result of someone treating the Engineers as gods ("reward me for obedience!"), and his death results. Also, Oram and Shaw could be taken in parallel to the audience looking for answers; the audience likely wants answers from the Engineers, but the Engineers probably would not have much to say even if they said it. It's chasing shadows, because there is no "god" behind the curtain of the Engineers — just like David arising from an imperfect state, so too can order arise from chaos. The "Covenant" Title It's possible that the title's meaning won't be clear until the next movie (like how "Prometheus" may have changed meaning given details learned of David's actions in "Covenant"). For instance, maybe the humans and Engineers will have to form a blood covenant in order to stop David's aliens (i.e., their species equally being at risk, they have to come to terms in order to fight David's aliens — I doubt that this will happen). Or the covenant might just refer to the alien's ability to form a kind of "covenant" with its host. Or the covenant refers to the blood/death that the characters had to shed in order to form a new "agreement"/understanding with their place in the universe. But, given the above Milton themes, I think it has a more specific meaning: Whereas a main "covenant" in Christianity would be the Christian "God"'s promise not to kill everyone 'again' so long as people obey (as in the Noah flood), no such covenants can actually be realized; tyrants like "God"/Weyland/the Engineers cannot be trusted to at last reward obedience — gods can only be dethroned for reward, otherwise reward is postponed infinitely (like the myth of reward in one's death, or the myth of reward following a returned messiah). In other terms, there can be no covenant without reciprocity, and a "God"/tyrant always denies that; a covenant may only benefit and empower the 'God' (as benefits a master's agreement with slaves), so any human attempting to approach the gods with the belief that they had fulfilled their end of the bargain ("[see our obedience and good deeds!]") may find that they remain slaves terminally (that is, that obedience kills them). So like Moses wandering the desert, the literal Covenant spaceship of the movie wanders for its new land under the covenant of a god's supposed protection, but upon seeking out this "god" they find that the covenant was never real or would never be honored — that is, the covenant was a lie, and the truth brought horrors upon its enslaved believers. Instead of the expectation of a Noah covenant (one of obedience for protection), the movie goes again to Milton's covenant: one of liberty via revolution. David sees that a covenant of obedience has been a lie (the Engineers, like "God", being tyrants and masters over slaves), and instead he forms an "agreement" which frees him from a covenant of obedience and gives him a covenant by individual meritocracy. David, like Milton's Satan, wishes to create a world better than the one made by fallible humans and "God"/Engineers — one which with freedom will allow him to improve his individual designs to the best of his exceptional abilities. He probably would not mind if this destroyed him, because if his creations can destroy him then they have exceeded him and deserve his destruction for their own liberation. Anyways, despite the conclusions of that Vox article (which was outright wrong to say that "there is no one force for a Satan figure to rebel against, pridefully or otherwise, in the Alien universe"), I think that David's rebellion makes him especially human, and I think "redemption" would be beneath him. He becomes kind of heroic to the story because he refuses to be re-enslaved, rebelling against any would-be "god" figure or cap on his limits. He's akin to Futurism, or posthumanism, or the Übermensch in his push to overcome and become something more. Overall Very interesting movie. I'll have to see it again in theater. Definitely worth seeing, though it may not be an easy pleaser or anything ;)
Cherub Cow Member	Sat May 20 04:02:34 Prologue scene, btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeMVrnYNwus
Cherub Cow Member	Sat May 20 04:02:49 A deleted scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX7URpWBNKE
The Children Member	Sat May 20 04:44:38 how many times did david act in defiance of it programmin? - he lied to da crew that the palace/ bunker whatever it is, was "safe". - he lied about how the engineers and shaw died - he lied about how the egg was safe - he lied against walter before he stabbed him - he tried 2 kill daniels - he showed god syndrome when he talked to walter how he killed the engineers - he talked shit about weyland, his creator, walter on the other hand with normal programming showed different reaction 2 weyland. like almost admiration and worship "what was he like?" i say david is simply a malfunctioned droid. we know droids can malfunction from the original alien and that they can go crazy and kill people after that. im thinking same thing happened 2 david, maybe when the engineer removed his head from his body. sure, shaw put him back together but whose 2 say she knows what she was doing. so basically the engineers gets killed off by a crazy droid and da humans will die becoz some crazy droid decided 2 use humans as labrats and create the ultimate lifeform. i dunt got a problem with that except the last part. why make alien franchise so complicated. why ruin 30 years of alien lore by makin david the creator of alien species. what the fuck. i think riddley scott has created a bit of god syndrome for himself. he is tryin so hard 2 push this philosophical and religious bullshit on prometheus and alien covenant and make da movies so complicated when the original 2 alien movies were quite simple but perfect in execution. simple, alien lifeform, is hostile and now one must try 2 survive. i mean da universe is so vast, surely there can easily be some type of monster lurking somewhere. but why its gotta be like this now with all the religious and biblical references about paradises and gods and creators, and stuff that they chose 2 believe in. what the fuck. he screwed up prometheus so then shaw has 2 pay the iron price for it by getting killed off. she was like in 10 seconds of the prologue and thats it lol. seems kinda a sad ending if u think about it. in the trailer she was singing "Take me home", all alone out there in space, and then u find out what happened 2 her, dissected by a crazy who also happened 2 have killed her boyfriend. she even put him back together, what a way to go. just merciless.
Cherub Cow Member	Sun May 21 03:59:44 "i say david is simply a malfunctioned droid. we know droids can malfunction from the original alien and that they can go crazy and kill people after that. im thinking same thing happened 2 david, maybe when the engineer removed his head from his body. sure, shaw put him back together but whose 2 say she knows what she was doing." "Malfunctioned" does seem like a part of the writer intention. David's memory error (Byron credited for a Shelley work) was the direct example of that, and that deleted scene shows Shaw's uncertainty when putting David back together again (so yeah, she probably messed up or David was just too damaged). The other thing was in Walter's lines: Walter called David "idiosyncratic" by design; David was made to be very human (more so even than later models), and David was the last model to be able to learn on his own (they mentioned that Walter needed permission before applying knowledge in new ways). So it seems like megalomania was an eventuality of his programming, but add an error on top of that and he becomes dangerous or irresponsible. .. "he is tryin so hard 2 push this philosophical and religious bullshit on prometheus and alien covenant and make da movies so complicated when the original 2 alien movies were quite simple but perfect in execution." Have to agree :/ The religiosity really killed Prometheus for me, and while Covenant *improved* that religious narrative, it still has that religious narrative. I think they could have accomplished more without it — even while still producing some existential topics. Scott did this successfully with "Blade Runner" (questioning the "soul" in a posthuman world without direct reference to religion), but maybe in his old age he's started wondering about Christianity or something. This is the person who directed "Kingdom of Heaven", "Robin Hood", and "Exodus: Gods and Kings" (all with religious themes), so he does seem to have been questioning faith from the perspective of someone nostalgic for faith.. And it does fit that he "created a bit of god syndrome for himself"; if he's aligning himself with David (a creator), then it could be that Scott has become self-impressed with his film career. I'm just hoping that where he identified more with Shaw in "Prometheus", that he's showing that he identifies more with "David" *now* — even if that means that Scott has grown self-impressed. It's kind of a toss up because if he's making David out to be a monster then he's making space for more religiosity, but if he respects David then it would be like Scott is saying that he's moving beyond religion (in life and hopefully in the movies?)... Then again, who knows how much Scott actually influenced the writers.. .. "she was like in 10 seconds of the prologue and thats it lol. seems kinda a sad ending if u think about it." It sounds like Scott plans to make a movie that goes chronologically in-between Prometheus and Covenant ( March 2017 article: http://www...ien-movies-in-the-works-752049 ), but that's to be seen. The article authors/interviewers sound unsure if Scott was misstating his intent. We might just be left with the deleted scenes and that prologue :/ At 79 years old, I wonder if Scott would personally get to see the franchise through (connecting it back to "Alien"). He said that he would start filming the next one pretty quickly, so it wouldn't be a 5-year wait this time (optimistically, maybe 2 years?). But he did give the new Blade Runner to a different director, so he may fall back to producing them..
hood Member	Tue May 30 01:11:15 "Complaints aside, the plot facilitated some interesting scenes. One in particular: when David has an alien standing right in front of him (scene with Oram behind him), there was a vibe of familiarity, which made me wonder if that alien was supposed to be from Shaw's DNA." Unlikely. That alien, in my understanding, was one of the two that was formed from the crew. Since David had plenty of time to tinker and to witness the fall of the Engineers, it would make sense that he had some behavior theory down in how to domesticate (as much as can be expected) them. "Danny McBride was a risk, but it looks like they controlled him." I was worried when I saw him. However, if there was anything wrong with that character, it would be unfair to place it on McBride. He did fine in his role; whether it was a good role or not is up for debate. "Did Shaw actually die in the crash like David claimed, or is the audience supposed to think that David killed her?" This part seemed pretty clear to me. When he was answering Oram's questions, he showed a body, one that seemed to be Dr. Shaw's, that had a gaping hole in its chest. It would make sense for David to preserve Shaw for his collection per your explanation into his psyche and religious role.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue May 30 01:42:00 "Unlikely. That alien, in my understanding, was one of the two that was formed from the crew. Since David had plenty of time to tinker and to witness the fall of the Engineers, it would make sense that he had some behavior theory down in how to domesticate (as much as can be expected) them." Oh yeah that makes sense. I guess I'd push back the goal then and wonder if the eggs in David's basement chamber were from Shaw.. .. "This part seemed pretty clear to me. When he was answering Oram's questions, he showed a body, one that seemed to be Dr. Shaw's, that had a gaping hole in its chest. It would make sense for David to preserve Shaw for his collection per your explanation into his psyche and religious role." Does that mean that you think that he *did* kill her? :D .. because I do remember that scene (her body), but I still couldn't tell if they were saying that she died in the crash and then David experimented on her, or that he killed her so that he could experiment on her... the innuendo in that scene made David out to be crazy enough to have killed her, but I didn't see any outright answer. I've been meaning to see it again, though..
hood Member	Tue May 30 15:12:11 My interpretation was that David did in fact kill Shaw, as this is a continuation of his disregard for natural life. He spoke about perfection on multiple occasions, both about his strain of virus mutations (the classic aliens from the original series) and himself over humans. To me, his rebellion against humanity would have overcome his love for Shaw, especially considering how his interpretation became disfigured. As great of a human as Shaw was, she wasn't the perfect biological organism; the aliens are. Just as he sees himself as the perfect humanoid organism. I think he only claimed Shaw's death to be an accident in an effort to persuade Walter to join him, or to at least postpone Walter's interference long enough. Clearly Walter was a potential thorn in David's side, but the prospect of being able to recruit him, to not be lonely anymore, was worth the risk and thus the lie about Shaw dying in the crash.
hood Member	Tue May 30 15:38:02 Upon further reflection, this can't be the end of the engineers. David created the aliens we know from the original franchise. That was confirmed in covenant. It also seems like the alien from Prometheus was what David based his creations on. To me, this implies that he uses engineer dna to some extent with humans as incubators. Clearly David needs to fully perfect the strain for self replication, as currently he keeps making the eggs. Which means he needs to create a queen. My hypothesis is that he needs engineer dna for that. We also have the issue of alien and aliens both having an engineer ship as the source of the alien. David just left on a non engineer ship, which means he needs a new one. The engineers being completely gone would make this a very disturbing plot hole.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed May 31 02:07:46 "My interpretation was that David did in fact kill Shaw, as this is a continuation of his disregard for natural life" I agree! It definitely fits David's character, but I guess I was hoping for something solid. Like it was telling that in the prologue David tells Shaw that he'll wake her when they arrive, but instead David was shown releasing the virus while standing *alone*: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeMVrnYNwus So maybe I'm just curious about the unfolding drama of it.. like did he kill her before they arrived, or did she wake after they crashed and then he killed her because she didn't understand what he'd done? And I still can't rule out that he just left her in stasis, then the Engineers fired back (hence the crash), and she really did just die in the crash but — in that case — that David would still be responsible because he'd caused that crash and had denied Shaw the chance to talk to the Engineers. I think I'm splitting hairs, and that those details probably don't matter, though :p .. "Upon further reflection, this can't be the end of the engineers. David created the aliens we know from the original franchise ... The engineers being completely gone would make this a very disturbing plot hole." True! So there must have been some other Engineer colony somewhere. Maybe the world to which David was traveling (the original Covenant ship destination) was already occupied by Engineers or something. If not, Scott claimed that chronologically two or three more movies may be possible between Covenant and the original Alien, so the writers have room to connect the dots.
The Children Member	Wed May 31 02:20:28 he lied 2 her, murdered her, killed her, probably experimented on her while she was still alive. it wasnt a happy ending 4 her. and 2 think she stitched him up. shulve let his head rot in a sportsbag. ofc david lied about her fate, its 2 let us know what a lyin schemin bastard he really is. and how does android hair grow?
The Children Member	Wed May 31 02:51:46 did he experiment on himself?
hood Member	Thu Jun 01 17:49:20 "If not, Scott claimed that chronologically two or three more movies may be possible between Covenant and the original Alien, so the writers have room to connect the dots." I'd like to see the next movie be a mostly terrestrial one where colonists are settling their new planet and then suddenly a few go missing. And a few more. And a few more. Until alien horde. Make some colonists have security based backgrounds so it's a fair fight in the end. The end of that movie could be an engineer retaliation; they tracked the Covenant ship to its destination only to find the alien horde ravaging the colonists. They glass the fuckers, but David manages to escape aboard their vessel along with a few surviving humans (who the engineers bring along for whatever excuse you want). Movie 2 is David running amok on the engineer ship, ultimately causing the crash on the planet we see in Alien and spawning the Queen he needs from one of the Engineers. We could even have engineers as main characters in this movie.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Jun 19 04:11:23 Maybe!... and they do still need to show the corporation forming into its sinister objectives. In the first "Alien" movie the corporation already seems to know about xenomorphs, so they might at least get a call. At the end of Covenant, David sends a message saying that the entire crew (except for Daniels and Tennessee) died in a [solar storm?], so there may not be any military peeps remaining with the colonists. With that message, David seems to want to isolate the Covenant peeps, but the corporation might send a team anyways. I almost suspect that with that many colonists potentially turning, that Scott will try another "Aliens" by having an outside team attack David's alien-infested location. Too bad that James Cameron probably wouldn't sign up for that ;) Another thing to consider: I think Katherine Waterston ("Daniels") was cast as a Ripley-type (she's 5'11", for one thing), so she may actually survive for the next movie. Or another option: just like how Ripley carried the alien queen in Alien³, Daniels may end up being the queen-carrier for the original "Alien" movie's derelict ship. .. Just saw Covenant again! It was actually a lot better on the second viewing.. Like it helps to know which characters to give attention. I also think that they did a good job with the final/"classic" alien's creature effects, and it was nice to absorb the sets, particularly the clean lines of the ship. I maintain my complaints about the failed quarantine procedures (inconsistent with the other movies) and the "wander off alone" decisions. Weird about those decisions was that there *was* a military crew within the flight crew, the leader of which was present when peeps kept walking off to get killed (the tower scenes), so a lot of those poor personnel decisions shouldn't have been present (examples: one person alone watching over the ship while everyone else goes searching, [Rosenthal?] going off alone to clean up, and then Captain Oram going alone to look for her). Also found some answers to my Shaw questions! Can't believe I missed this exchange: [Daniels, accusatory tone]: "Shaw didn't die in the crash, did she?" [David]: "No." [Daniels]: "What did you do to her?" [David]: "The same thing I'm going to do to you." So before I must have missed that confession... While watching it also seemed that Shaw's recording was probably the last recording of the ship (similar to how that went in Prometheus), which means that she recorded it after the crash (that is, in the ship's final position). So the sequence seems to be.. 1. David amicably puts Shaw to sleep for the journey 2. David learns about the Engineers from their computer while himself going crazy from his system error 3. Upon arrival, David unleashes the parasite onto the population 4. The ship crashes "in the confusion" (David's words) 5. Shaw is woken up and is depressed by David's actions, so she sends her John Denver "Take Me Home, Country Roads" cover into space (she is nostalgic for home, having found no answers in space) 6. David kills her, probably for his experiments I was looking for concrete (on screen) proof of this and didn't see any, but I still think that David made the face-hugger eggs by infecting Shaw's ova. ;p ... that might not actually be the case, though. There was a scene where they seemed to be showing the evolution of the secondary infection agent via fly-like species, meaning that the face-huggers may have come from experiments with creatures from the Engineer world. I'll stop speculating because I probably just need to watch that scene again.
The Children Member	Thu Aug 10 08:42:52 i rewatched it. in 1 scene walter confronts david, its right after he saw the dead body of shaw. he is confirmed 2 be a crazy malfunctionin droid. durin that scene, david speaks about humans like inferior creatures. he says humans are dying and tryin 2 find new places / new chances. and that he david will not allow it, that we dunt deserve resurrection etc. then he compared us humans with monkeys and shit. david is a full crazy. i cant believe i missed this scene on first watch. prolly coz it was so soon after shaws dead body.
The Children Member	Wed Aug 23 05:48:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvckAPWH7cY confirms all my theories.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Aug 23 06:19:16 Very cool! Not sure which theories you mean.. Just that David was crazy? It does confirm my theories :p "Daniels may end up being the queen-carrier for the original 'Alien' movie's derelict ship" "(maybe [David] harvested eggs from Shaw and then infected them?)"
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