Utopia Talk / Politics / Ukraine spits in America's face

Rugian Member	Sun Feb 16 07:03:50 Ukraine Rejects U.S. Demand for Half of Its Mineral Resources President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine, during a closed-door meeting on Wednesday, rejected an offer by the Trump administration to relinquish half of the country’s mineral resources in exchange for U.S. support, according to five people briefed on the proposal or with direct knowledge of the talks. The unusual deal would have granted the United States a 50 percent interest in all of Ukraine’s mineral resources, including graphite, lithium and uranium, according to two European officials. Scott Bessent, the U.S. Treasury secretary, who presented the deal to Ukraine, said Sunday that the United States wanted the minerals “as payback for the aid we’ve given them” — leaving unclear whether the deal would cover future military and financial assistance. A Ukrainian official and an energy expert briefed on the proposal said that the Trump administration sought not only Ukraine’s minerals but additional natural resources, including oil and gas. The proposal, they said, would entitle the United States to half of Ukraine’s resource earnings — funds that are today mostly invested in the country’s military and defense production. Mr. Zelensky, who has shown openness to leveraging Ukraine’s mineral resources in negotiations with allies, said he rejected the deal because it did not tie resource access to U.S. security guarantees for Kyiv in its fight against Russia. http://www...minerals-us-deal-rejected.html
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 16 07:11:57 We've been pouring money and resources into that shithole for three years now. Despite their histrionic claims that Ukraine is the only bulwark preventing Russian tanks from overrunning the continent, our European "allies" have continued to under-fund their militiares and demanded that the US pick up their slack under long-outdated security commitments. Ukraine presents zero strategic interest to the US. Our focus should be on Asia, Africa, Latin America. Not Europe. It is reasonable that we should expect some compensation for our efforts in Europe's backyard. Either Ukraine pays us themselves, or our European "friends" can pay us as atonement for their delinquent performance in this war.
Peter Walsh Member	Sun Feb 16 07:12:41 "I don't understand why we can't have half a countries resources after we told them to give up all their occupied land to the invading enemy and told them they'll have no protection from future invasions after we cut them out of all negotiations and gave their enemy everything they wanted before negotiations even started" "how dare they spit in our face"
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 16 07:14:31 Peter The compensation is for the effort we've already put in. Not for any sort of promise of future aid. We've earned their wealth. Now the bill is due.
TheChildren Member	Sun Feb 16 07:30:45 all there resources r finally belong 2 u?
Habebe Member	Sun Feb 16 07:51:39 Remember when I said this would be another forever war? Most ppl thought it be over in weeks or months...
Paramount Member	Sun Feb 16 07:52:01 Genocide Joe and the US started this war. Russia was to be defeated on the battlefield they said. Russia is going to be regime shifted, weakened and carved up they happily said. Now the US is throwing in the towel and dumping their shit on Europe to sort out. The losing aide ain’t getting anything. You betted on the wrong horse. Ukraine didn’t deliver. You lost all your ”investments”.
Average Ameriacn Member	Sun Feb 16 08:02:01 Remember "we should have kept the oil"? This time we can do it better and keep the minerals! How much gold does Ukraine have?
murder Member	Sun Feb 16 08:55:59 "We've earned their wealth. Now the bill is due." Come and take it. -
Seb Member	Sun Feb 16 09:24:46 Rugian: Should have asked up front. You've given nowhere near as much as Europe nor as much as what you demanded is worth.
Seb Member	Sun Feb 16 09:36:03 Us asking for 500bn of minerals in exchange for 120bn of aid is a joke. You might get that for both aid given and concrete guarantees for future support. But deals need to be sensible, and trying to demand a purely retrospective deal is silly.
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 16 10:26:47 Seb "You've given nowhere near as much as Europe" Even if this was remotely true (and we both know it's not), your argument seems to be that US aid is already relatively de minimis. If that's the case, then surely you won't mind if we cut it entirely? The $120bn figure is also a lowball...but regardless. Supply and demand. If Ukraine can find another country that is willing to send $500 billion of aid in exchange for $500 billion of mineral rights, then good for them. Somehow I don't think that's going to happen. So they owe us at the exchange rate we set.
Dukhat Member	Sun Feb 16 10:33:27 Fuck you Rugian.
Rugian Member	Sun Feb 16 10:38:20 TTT
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Feb 16 11:10:49 "The compensation is for the effort we've already put in. Not for any sort of promise of future aid." like pressuring a girl for sex after buying them dinner ------ "If that's the case, then surely you won't mind if we cut it entirely? " Zelensky's specific reason for refusal is there is no guarantee of any more (last line of your OP post) ... & very obviously Trump is completely on Putin's's side & doesn't want to help anymore, & just wants in on the pillaging
TheChildren Member	Sun Feb 16 12:34:35 http://www...elines-them-russia-peace-talks da faces says it all. went from quiet 2 sulkin real fast. looks like realities startin 2 sink in.
TheChildren Member	Sun Feb 16 12:35:03 all there resources r not yet belong 2 u?
Seb Member	Sun Feb 16 14:21:55 Rugian: That's a question for the Ukrainians, but both in direct military support, finance Europe has donated more been national and multilateral means; and I can't see Europe agreeing to put in 100,000+ peacekeepers to protect $500bb of US mineral rights; and I can't see Ukraine agreeing to give you $500bn of mineral rights right now for sunk costs you can't take back. At this point, personally, yeah, I don't give a shit if the US stops all aid. It's worthless at this point. If I was in charge, there'd be tanks breaking through the gates at Rammstein, rounding up all US troops at gun point, and shipping them back to the US on a slow boat the same way you ship illegal immigrants: hooded, in chains, with no toilet breaks; with US military kit to come back in much the same way that spy plane forced to land in China came back. In pieces, after careful documentation. I am beyond fucking done with the US at this point.
Paramount Member	Sun Feb 16 15:00:48 ”If I was in charge, there'd be tanks breaking through the gates at Rammstein, rounding up all US troops at gun point, and shipping them back to the US on a slow boat the same way you ship illegal immigrants: hooded, in chains, with no toilet breaks;” 10/10
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Feb 16 15:58:23 all our once allies just need to shut up & send tribute to Trump for honoring them with his existence
murder Member	Sun Feb 16 23:41:36 "You might get that for both aid given and concrete guarantees for future support." Ukraine should never again settle for guarantees. Past guarantees proved worthless. The only guarantee is massive amounts of firepower. -
murder Member	Sun Feb 16 23:47:03 "Even if this was remotely true (and we both know it's not), your argument seems to be that US aid is already relatively de minimis. If that's the case, then surely you won't mind if we cut it entirely?" Would that be the aid where we sign over parts of Ukraine to Trump's boss in Moscow? -
LazyCommunist Member	Tue Feb 18 08:50:16 Awesome! Go Donald go, fuck the Ukrainian Nazis! http://www...ial-plan-ukraine-stranglehold/ Panic in Kyiv as US president demands higher share of GDP than Germany’s First World War reparations Donald Trump’s demand for a $500bn (£400bn) “payback” from Ukraine goes far beyond US control over the country’s critical minerals. It covers everything from ports and infrastructure to oil and gas, and the larger resource base of the country. The terms of the contract that landed at Volodymyr Zelensky’s office a week ago amount to the US economic colonisation of Ukraine, in legal perpetuity. It implies a burden of reparations that cannot possibly be achieved. The document has caused consternation and panic in Kyiv. The Telegraph has obtained a draft of the pre-decisional contract, marked “Privileged & Confidential’ and dated Feb 7 2025. It states that the US and Ukraine should form a joint investment fund to ensure that “hostile parties to the conflict do not benefit from the reconstruction of Ukraine”.
Paramount Member	Tue Feb 18 09:29:46 Haha Ukraine should never have listened to the Yanks and the Brits. ”With our help you will be able to defeat the Russians”, they said in 2014. ”Don’t sign the Istanbul peace agreement”, they ordered in 2022. ”We are with you for as long as it takes”, they announced. Three years later, Ukraine is broke, broken and defeated. Ukraine got no men left. On the orders of USA and Britain they have all been thrown into a meat grinder. It’s a genocide. Not only is it tragic but it’s also criminal. If anything the US should pay reparations to Ukraine. And Genocide Joe should be sent to the Hague to be hanged by the neck.
TheChildren Member	Tue Feb 18 09:53:37 when da leaders r not based in reality but instead listen 2 da foreigners who come bearin gifts but speak in forked tongue... when da leaders lack da wisdom and refuse 2 learn from history. this event will go in2 history as a xample of wut not 2 do
TheChildren Member	Tue Feb 18 09:57:53 readit mothafuckers r sayin last weeks shit was brutal. apparently they presented him with da offer on da raw materials but gave him merely 1 hour 2 either accept or not. also was a sneaky meetin, they didnt xpect anyone flyin in. but flown in someone was with contract, basically loan shark contract lol i also call bs on da trillioniez of minerals in there. if they got soo much they wuld have sold and mined them decades ago
obaminated Member	Tue Feb 18 15:09:33 Seb showed his true colors. Btw. Gotta love that this idiot is comparing the United states, a single country, to "europe" a network of countries. Seb is there a single country in the world that has provided more aid to Ukraine than the United states?
Seb Member	Tue Feb 18 15:14:15 Obaminated: It's your contention that Luxembourg should provide as much as the US? It's the US that has shown its true colours. It's selling out it's allies who rallied to its support in 2001; and trying to split Ukraine with the fucking Russians like a modern Molitov-Ribentrop.
murder Member	Tue Feb 18 15:59:30 Unfortunately the EU is going to let it happen.
Rugian Member	Tue Feb 18 16:38:42 "It's selling out it's allies who rallied to its support in 2001" Zero of our European allies have been attacked. This is not at all comparable to 9/11.
Rugian Member	Tue Feb 18 16:40:05 And on the aid question: http://www...rian-and-financial-aid-donors/ USA is #1! (Even though it shouldn't be)
obaminated Member	Tue Feb 18 16:47:20 Seb, you aren't sending soldiers into Ukraine. What you want is to continue to finance a losing war because you want to virtue signal. Ukraine will lose. Russia will win. Pretending otherwise is just a sad joke.
Rugian Member	Tue Feb 18 16:47:45 "If I was in charge, there'd be tanks breaking through the gates at Rammstein, rounding up all US troops at gun point, and shipping them back to the US on a slow boat the same way you ship illegal immigrants: hooded, in chains, with no toilet breaks; with US military kit to come back in much the same way that spy plane forced to land in China came back. In pieces, after careful documentation. I am beyond fucking done with the US at this point." Well first off, your blatant anti-Americanism is noted. But secondly...this is what it took to get you fuckers to finally step up and act. Note that you Euro cunts could only be bothered to put up a $700 billion aid package AFTER Trump forced your hand. You got a chance to play nice with Biden and responded with accounting tricks to artificially boost your defense spending numbers. Now the carrot is replaced with the stick and you are actually complying. Lesson learned, Euros respond far more effectively to the stick than the carrot.
Seb Member	Tue Feb 18 16:49:28 Rugian: Russia has been waging a sabotage war on Europe for years, including chemical weapon attacks, blowing up arms stores etc. Russia's attack on Ukraine will result in attacks on the Baltics, you announce formally you don't consider the alliance binding, and you are currently negotiating with Russia to withdraw. You've threatened to invade Canada, our ally, threatened to invade European territory, and attempted to try and turn Ukraine into s colony. You are treacherous quislings as bad as the fucking Russians and you can all burn as far as I'm concerned. We will make our own way, I just think we should make sure at least some of our
Seb Member	Tue Feb 18 16:51:32 "Well first off, your blatant anti-Americanism is noted." Note it well. Right now, I'm happy to be called anti-American as I am anti-Russian. Fuck you all. Europe has provided more aid to Ukraine than the US all along.
obaminated Member	Tue Feb 18 17:05:34 Seb crying because the United states is no longer protecting his country from a nation far closer to him than it is to us. Imagine being such an immature child while posing as an adult.
Rugian Member	Tue Feb 18 17:06:19 Jesus the hyperbole. "chemical weapon attacks" AKA they assassinated one of their own on European soil. "Russia's attack on Ukraine will result in attacks on the Baltics, you announce formally you don't consider the alliance binding, and you are currently negotiating with Russia to withdraw." All of this is baseless speculation. "You've threatened to invade Canada" *Literally* completely untrue. Trump sending out stupid tweets talking about how Canada would be so much better off as a 51st state is not tantamount to threatening invasion. "threatened to invade European territory," Also not true - the worst Trump ever did is refuse to explicitly rule out the possibility of military activities. "and attempted to try and turn Ukraine into s colony." It has effectively been our colony for three years. It's us that have been propping up its existence - our aid, not yours. "Note it well. Right now, I'm happy to be called anti-American as I am anti-Russian. Fuck you all." Congratulations, you lack any sense of perspective and proportionality! Kiev could fall tomorrow and it would have precisely zero impact on you personally or the UK as a whole. But sure, we're just as bad as ze Russians, because...wait for it...Europe should be primarily responsible for a war in Europe's backyard. Oh my god, what an unreasonable position for Orange Hitler to take.
Rugian Member	Tue Feb 18 17:14:45 Hey remember that time France and Germany helped us in Iraq, a country led by a ruthless dictator who unquestionably used WMDs against civilians? No? Turnabout is fair play, bitch. We never had any sort of obligation to help you with a war that wasn't directly against any of you.
Seb Member	Wed Feb 19 02:10:47 The US is, like China, has proven itself an adversary of Europe and it, its businesses and its people should be treated as such.
Seb Member	Wed Feb 19 02:14:34 Obaminated: The US isn't giving us protection from Russia. Our nukes do that. It is in fact the other way around. We host your warning radars that give your minutemen time to fire in the event if a first strike.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Feb 19 02:18:56 The biggest adversary of Europe, its businesses and its people remains the European ruling class.
Seb Member	Wed Feb 19 03:41:47 Nim: Quisling.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Feb 19 04:01:44 You are just retarded. European leaders have been had multiple warnings and close calls these past 15 years which they have not taken seriously. Even as we speak they have not ramped up our security infrastructure in any meaning way or pace or done anything to secure our energy needs and expand our nuclear industry. Even now European leaders seem to talk out of their asses on Ukraine. The problem is pretty simple, we have peace time career professionals in power. The fact that Trump and Trumpicans are retarded does not absolve European leaders from their retardation, you stupid cunt.
Seb Member	Wed Feb 19 05:03:25 European leaders have been incompetent n not recognising the US drift to opposition to European values and interests. That's not the same as being an adversary. But you are consistently against European values and a promoter of the authoritarians in the US now acting with Russia against European interests: a fifth columnist.
Paramount Member	Wed Feb 19 06:21:16 Seb, ”The US isn't giving us protection from Russia.” If European countries decide to put troops in Ukraine and fight Russia, no… why should the US come to their aid if they then get their buts kicked by Russia? As far as I know though, the US has not decided to leave NATO so if Russia would, let’s say invade Poland tomorrow for some reason, then Article 5 would be activated. So I think you are just seeing things worse than what it is.
Seb Member	Wed Feb 19 06:34:32 Paramount: That's exactly what we should do. "If European countries decide to put troops in Ukraine and fight Russia" Because they spent 80 years telling us how to develop ISR, planning and c&c capabilities. "As far as I know though, the US has not decided to leave NATO" Their second most senior elected official just announced that it doesn't see European defense as a priority last week at the security conference and is currently negotiating with Russia to pull out all forces from Eastern Europe. That's the same thing as formally leaving NATO.
Paramount Member	Wed Feb 19 06:35:43 Many European leftists and liberals are in shock today. There are a lot of emotions and tears now. Some haven’t understood yet that they have lost the proxy war on Russia. They think that they, the losing side, can dictate terms to the winning side and get a peace agreement that is favorable to the losing side. Europe and Ukraine had their chances for a favorable peace. They didn't take it. Instead they decided to double down because according to their own propaganda they are winning and Russia is weak. Republicans in the USA understands that they can't dictate the terms. They have accepted that Biden's and the Democrats Project Ukraine has failed and that the Liberals lost, and that a wider total war on Russia for Ukraine is not worth it for the USA or for Americans. But the leftists and the the liberals in Europe are still in denial. They are shocked that Ukraine will have to hold election, and that no NATO countries are allowed to be in Ukraine. Eventually the shock will wear off and they will 1) calm down and accept reality., or 2) continue to the next stage and be filled with rage and tripple down on stupidity.
Rugian Member	Wed Feb 19 06:41:35 "and is currently negotiating with Russia to pull out all forces from Eastern Europe." This is literally fake news. The US is doing no such thing.
murder Member	Wed Feb 19 07:15:48 "As far as I know though, the US has not decided to leave NATO so if Russia would, let’s say invade Poland tomorrow for some reason, then Article 5 would be activated. So I think you are just seeing things worse than what it is." Words on paper are just words on paper. The US could decide that it is not going to honor its commitment. The EU should be cranking out tactical nukes by the hundreds. -
Paramount Member	Wed Feb 19 07:28:40 Yes, the US can not be trusted. Any deal made can be scrapped any day. Iran, Russia, Ukraine, Kurds and maybe others has experienced this. Anyone would be a fool to trust the USA.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Feb 19 07:45:34 Seb "But you are consistently against European values and a promoter of the authoritarians in the US now acting with Russia against European interests: a fifth columnist." Bitch please. You would not know European values if your wife's boyfriend explained them for you.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Feb 19 07:47:12 And I say that with all due respect for your wife and her boyfriend.
Seb Member	Wed Feb 19 08:15:22 Murder: "The EU should be cranking out tactical nukes by the hundreds" Yes.
Seb Member	Wed Feb 19 08:22:11 "This is literally fake news. The US is doing no such thing." Incorrect. Trump just said that the deal offered by Putin should have been taken. That was a central part of Putin's offer. It remains so now, they have said so, and the US says they feel a deal is possible. And your secdef already said defending Europe will not be a priority going forward and we cannot rely on US support. It's happened Rugian. It's been announced.
jergul large member	Wed Feb 19 11:58:58 Ruggy You do not see Trump pulling forces out of Europe after failed negotiations with Europe to pay for them to stay? That variant is easily on the table.
murder Member	Wed Feb 19 13:10:18 Why in god's name would you want US forces in Europe? You may as well let the Russians set up bases in EU countries.
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