Utopia Talk / Politics / China is the devil #n

tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 22 13:46:52 The deadly secret of China's invisible armada OFF THE COAST OF SOUTH KOREA — The battered wooden “ghost boats” drift through the Sea of Japan for months, their only cargo the corpses of starved North Korean fishermen whose bodies have been reduced to skeletons. Last year more than 150 of these macabre vessels washed ashore in Japan, and there have been more than 500 in the past five years. For years the grisly phenomenon mystified Japanese police, whose best guess was that climate change pushed the squid population farther from North Korea, driving the country’s desperate fishermen dangerous distances from shore, where they become stranded and die from exposure. But an NBC News investigation, based on new satellite data, has revealed what marine researchers now say is a more likely explanation: China is sending a previously invisible armada of industrial boats to illegally fish in North Korean waters, violently displacing smaller North Korean boats and spearheading a decline in once-abundant squid stocks of more than 70 percent. The Chinese vessels — nearly 800 in 2019 — appear to be in violation of U.N. sanctions that forbid foreign fishing in North Korean waters. The sanctions, imposed in 2017 in response to the country’s nuclear tests, were intended to punish North Korea by not allowing it to sell fishing rights in its waters in exchange for valuable foreign currency. “This is the largest known case of illegal fishing perpetrated by a single industrial fleet operating in another nation’s waters,” said Jaeyoon Park, a data scientist from Global Fishing Watch, a global ocean conservation nonprofit group co-founded by Google, based in Washington. The group specializes in artificial intelligence and satellites that, along with an international team of academic researchers, discovered the Chinese fleet. ... [lots more text & satellite imagery]... Ranked worst for illegal fishing Around the globe, many kinds of fish and sea creatures are disappearing at an unsustainable rate due to climate change, overfishing and illegal fishing by industrial fleets. As these fishing stocks shrink, competition grows and offshore clashes between fishing nations become more common. Seafood-loving countries like Japan and South Korea are being edged out by growing fleets from Taiwan, Vietnam and, most of all, China. China accounted for about 15 percent of total global fishing captures in 2018, more than the total captures of the second- and third-ranked countries combined, according to the U.N. Fisheries agency. Many of the fishing stocks closest to China’s shores have collapsed from overfishing and industrialization, which is why the Chinese government heavily subsidizes its fishermen, who sail the world in search of new grounds. Fishing fleets from China accounted for 50 to 70 percent of the squid caught on the high seas in recent years, according to an estimate by the Chinese ­government. Often these boats are fishing illegally in other countries’ national waters, according to an unpublished analysis by C4ADS, a marine research firm. According to another index published last year by fishing and global crime experts, China has the world’s worst score when it comes to illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing. ... [more text]... http://www...legal-fishing-fleet/index.html china is determined to kill off every animal species
The Children Member	Wed Jul 22 13:58:45 rofl so u fuckers put sanctions on nkorea 2 starve the peoples and now ur blamin us for desperate nkorea peoples arrivin dead in japan... u arent devils, ur demons.
The Children Member	Wed Jul 22 14:03:27 theres also no such thing as illegal fishin. rofl u demons fished every for centuries but r now blamin us. u use industrial fishin nets that destroy the ecosystems and da fish like machineguns. but butbut chayna... rofl just stupid r u peoples.
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 22 18:02:47 So China illegally fished in NK waters.... Tbh that sounds like an internal issue between NK and China. NK hasnt made any gripes about it to the rest of the world, imho its not our business. Over fishing in general, now thats a world wide issue.
kargen Member	Wed Jul 22 18:16:56 China has 18% of the worlds population so 15% of the total fishing captures doesn't seem real out of place. Methods of fishing and where they fish is a concern though. Not real sure what can be done about it. China has consistently shown they have no concerns about anything but the immediate wants of China. They fail on so many issues to consider long term consequences.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 22 19:14:02 "Not real sure what can be done about it" quality leaders standing up & saying 'stop destroying the Earth or we'll kill you all'... plus extremely violent reaction to any chinese hunting, trapping, fishing (& whatever god awful shit they've thought up) where they don't belong
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 22 20:19:04 Tw, I'm with you on over fishing in general, but as for NK territorial claims that is sort of there fight if they even care.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 22 21:21:54 the world should care... and they aren't doing it just there environmental punishments should be ramped up enormously in all areas (if we have any environmental laws left under this admin) plus more global effort, specifically against China as they are chief species exterminator
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 22 21:50:38 Listen, Im with you on the over fishing. And you know my feelings on China. But what we need are universal standards and make sure they are actually followed. Its not just China in this case but they are known for not following rules and playing dumb.
kargen Member	Wed Jul 22 22:39:31 "quality leaders standing up & saying 'stop destroying the Earth or we'll kill you all'.." Yeah because that worked so well the last four or five decades. China doesn't give a shit about what countries say. Never have. Even when they agree to something they break that agreement almost immediately. And they really do not fear the threat of punishment because they know there will always be countries willing to deal with them. You are against stopping shipping saying it is an act of war so what would you suggest be done. Don't give me a superficial comment like "global action". Provide a detail or two about what would change China's behavior.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Jul 22 22:53:13 i don't have the answer (at least not one that wouldn't lead to war), but i'm confident your attitude of doing nothing is not the answer
Habebe Member	Wed Jul 22 22:53:51 Kargen, What we need is for US and US allies in the east ( Japan, SK Etc.) to get together with the EU and threaten real economic sanctions if it's not abided by. This over fishing shit is deeper than just China, Japan and other Asian powers are bad too. Not sure if the US is, but I wouldnt be surprised. Couple this with real* alternatives, this is key, you cant just a few billion people to stop eating so much fish or pay much higher prices. Replacing the fish with more sustainable options and possibly finding ways to boost schools of wild fish.
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