Utopia Talk / Politics / Tyranny of British and American English!

EuropeanPussy Member	Sat Feb 27 05:32:16 We must break free! http://www.politico.eu/article/english-language-of-the-eu/ Brexit means … Euro-English? An academic argues it’s time for the EU to develop its own version of the language of Shakespeare. February 27, 2021 The mantra of Brexit was “take back control” but the Brits’ departure from Brussels means they risk relinquishing their grip on one of their most precious assets: the English language. Fed up of kowtowing to the edicts of native speakers, some linguists want the EU to establish non-native English as an official and equally legitimate language alongside what purists would call the “proper” version. “It’s time for the people in mainland Europe who have English as a second language to determine the future of English for the European Union,” Marko Modiano, a professor of English at the University of Gävle in Sweden, told POLITICO’s EU Confidential podcast. Modiano proposes that the EU should take the lead in defining and promoting what he calls Euro-English, complete with its own “punctuation, spelling, some grammar, and some vocabulary.” But other linguists are pushing back, arguing that there are both practical and democratic reasons for preserving British English in the EU’s official communications and using it as a standard second language across the Continent. In theory, there isn’t meant to be a dominant EU language, be it a variety of English or anything else. The EU’s policy of multilingualism aims to put the bloc’s 24 official languages on an equal footing. All EU citizens can expect the European Commission to reply to their emails in their own language, be that Slovene or Bulgarian; MEPs have their speeches interpreted live; commissioners meet in French, German and English. But with the expansion of the EU north and eastwards in recent decades, the reality is that English has become the lingua franca of civil servants’ meetings and water cooler chit-chat in Brussels. Before being translated into the bloc’s other languages, around 90 percent of EU legislation now starts life in English, according to Commission officials. And the variety that underpins the Commission’s English style guide is clear. It’s not Euro-English, it’s not American English, it’s “standard usage of Britain and Ireland” — referred to as “British usage” or “British English” in the guide “for the sake of convenience.” The domination of English in Brussels is much to the chagrin of the French, who have frequently bemoaned the Anglo-Saxon takeover. Last month, France’s Europe Minister Clément Beaune said Europeans should stop speaking a type of “broken English” after Brexit, and instead fight for “linguistic diversity” — which many assumed would have a distinctly French accent. But many linguists say French is not coming back as the EU’s dominant language and multilingualism is not a practical way to communicate across the Continent. Modiano argues a sort of Euro-English is already developing. It may not always sound correct to a native speaker but it should be embraced, he says. A slip of the tongue made by a French person is not a mistake, but just as valid a version of English as that ringing out on the streets of Kent, he argues. “It’s not a question of whether or not Euro English exists. It’s a question of how we respond to the fact that it is evolving.” For Modiano, this is also about power. “Someone is going to have to step forward and say, ‘OK, let’s break our ties with the tyranny of British English and the tyranny of American English.’ And instead say ‘we are competent second-language speakers. This is our language.’” In some future Europe, a European commissioner might confidently introduce herself to the British prime minister in fluent Euro-English with a smattering of Brussels babble: “Hello, I am coming from the EU. Since 3 years I have competences for language policy and today I will eventually assist at a trilogue on comitology.” If it ain’t broke But Jeremy Gardner, former senior translator at the European Court of Auditors, said there was no need to create a new model, and warned that diverging from the English used in the United Kingdom and Ireland could be damaging. “It’s a question of democracy because the European citizen wants to, can and does speak in English. If the EU, which it could do, imposed any other language as its main official working language … it would lose its main line of communication to the European citizen,” he said. Gardner wrote a report of almost 60 pages on English words misused by EU auditors, attempting to clamp down on Brussels-speak such as decommitment, intervention and planification, which veers away from standard British usage. The British-born linguist argued that schoolchildren and other learners across the Continent still want to learn a form of English that is recognized by native speakers. “They don’t want a model that will help them communicate with a professor in Sweden,” he said. That said, the English used by EU institutions is not quite the same as what you might hear in Edinburgh, Dublin on London. As well as using a slew of EU-speak, the Commission avoids using specific cultural references, such as cricket metaphors, in its communications. This is because the Commission is “mindful that readers of EU texts in English are often not mother-tongue speakers themselves,” a Commission spokesperson explained. The same applies to other languages. Rytis Martikonis, the top civil servant at the Commission’s translation department, said: “We have to be realistic and in a sense acknowledge that the languages that are being used in the institutions are by definition less pure than the languages spoken in the middle of Paris, Madrid or Helsinki.” But that does not mean the EU is prepared to chisel this culturally-neutered form of English into a distinct dialect. “Languages are rooted in culture, and we have no plans to use an artificial common language, whether that be Esperanto or a new international version of English,” said another EU official who is au fait with the bloc’s language policy. Martikonis dismissed Modiano’s activism for Euro-English as being an interesting idea, but an academic one. Another major stumbling block for Modiano is the fact that, in Ireland and Malta, the EU still has two countries where English is an official language, making a concerted shift away from natively-spoken English even less probable. “We certainly would not want the non-English speaking member states to impose on Ireland a kind of English that Irish people can’t understand,” the EU official said. But the Commission’s policy of keeping English free from idiomatic flourishes, for the benefit of the bloc’s majority of non-native speakers, means it’s unlikely we’ll ever hear a spokesperson describing a meeting of the College of Commissioners as “good craic.”
EuropeanPussy Member	Sat Feb 27 05:35:25 Do understand that we are already on our way away from you and you can't stop us! Read this for further understanding: http://www...EN_TERMINOLOGY_PUBLICATION.pdf Introduction Over the years, the European institutions have developed a vocabulary that differs from that of any recognised form of English. It includes words that do not exist or are relatively unknown to native English speakers outside the EU institutions and often even to standard spellcheckers/grammar checkers (‘planification’, ‘to precise’ or ‘telematics’ for example) and words that are used with a meaning, often derived from other languages, that is not usually found in English dictionaries (‘coherent’ being a case in point). Some words are used with more or less the correct meaning, but in contexts where they would not be used by native speakers (‘homogenise’, for example). Finally, there is a group of words, many relating to modern technology, where users (including many native speakers) ‘prefer’ a local term (often an English word or acronym) to the one normally used in English-speaking countries, which they may not actually know, even passively (‘GPS’ or ‘navigator’ for ‘satnav’, ‘SMS’ for ‘text’, ‘to send an SMS to’ for ‘to text’, ‘GSM’ or even ‘Handy’ for ‘mobile’ or ‘cellphone’, internet ‘key’, ‘pen’ or ‘stick’ for ‘dongle’, ‘recharge’ for ‘top-up/top up’, ‘beamer’ for projector etc.). The words in this last list have not been included because they belong mostly to the spoken language.
Rugian Member	Sat Feb 27 05:58:51 Academics and bureaucrats actually get paid to come up with this stuff. Think about that.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Feb 27 06:41:47 Native english speaking people are actually most often the culprit in miscommunication in their own language. If you only learn one language you will have a hard time understanding meaning and identifying ambiguity, even in your own language when other people who knows 2-3 language and daily communicates in English with other people who are not native english speakers. The native speaker thinks, talks and listens in 1 language that isn’t a tool, it is their main language for emotional, culture and social consumption and expression. When I speak english with a german, we are using a tool, we speak with intention and precision. We use fewer words, because we are aware there are atleast 3 languages at play, and the risk for miscommunication high. The native english speaker, will not and often can not acommodate this, since they lack the additional languages to think in and the cultur to provide broader context and ambiguity. I probably understand this better than most lay people, because I can speak with Brits and Americans, and they will compliment me on how well I speak english, because I can speak and pass for an anglo using cultural specific concepts and phrases with a pretty convincing accent, making them feel at home. I then go back to the person in Berlin or Brussels and speak ”global english”. You guys are great at english, but suck at language, because you are not forced to learn more than one. And the reality is that, when english became the primary businness laguage, like an artist that makes a painting, it is no longer yours alone to dictate the meaning of. It’s out there and you need to step up your game. There are millions, like me, who can do both kinds of english.
patom Member	Sat Feb 27 08:20:14 Well there's English and then there's English and all sorts of more English variants and local dialects. My granddaughter who is half Japanese and half American used to carry on conversations with her mother. Her mother would talk to her in Japanese and she would reply in English. An old friend of mine whose father was from Italy was in the Army back in the early 60's. He was stationed in Germany and took some leave time to visit Italy and his fathers hometown and relatives. His father always spoke to his sons in Italian. But my friend said he didn't understand most of what people were saying until he was within 15 miles of where his father grew up.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Feb 27 09:20:21 Patom This isn't something I was aware of for years, but I like most Iranians abroad, have an accent speaking my mother tongue. When this came to my attention, I was in shock and disbelief for a minute, uhm I think we need a second opinion? And to my dismay, there was a consensus, I had an accent...
habebe Member	Sat Feb 27 12:53:15 Does anyone have a problem with this?
Pillz Member	Sat Feb 27 15:43:25 Nim is retarded And nuke berlin
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Feb 27 16:18:57 That isn’t how you spell ”correct”.
Habebe Member	Sat Feb 27 16:51:52 Nimatzo, In Euro-english its "pceorrect" , you forgot the silent "p" and the pronunciation of the 2nd clustered vowel.
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