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Utopia Talk / Politics / Vaccine news 7
Seb
Member
Wed Mar 03 03:06:06
PHE have published stats on vaccine effectiveness.

Looks like AZ is (at 7 weeks) more effective than Pfizer on first doses in over 80s.

Interesting to see what the second dose AZ results will look like.

Will Sam follow through on his own policy and admit he was wrong?

Habebe
Member
Wed Mar 03 03:57:23
What was sams position that your saying is wrong now?
Seb
Member
Wed Mar 03 05:04:39
Habebe:

He repeatedly claimed the AZ vaccine was less effective.

Yes, appreciate the data supported him at the time; I wouldn't say he was wrong, but if the positions were reversed he would certainly demand I "admit I was wrong", hence I said "his own policy".

I'm relaxed with "when the facts change, so do my opinions", personally speaking.
Seb
Member
Wed Mar 03 05:05:04
Anyway, that's another good bit of news.
Habebe
Member
Wed Mar 03 05:36:53
Gotchya.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 03 13:47:33
PHE? Who the fux is that? Some third world outfit probably.

"Looks like AZ is (at 7 weeks) more effective than Pfizer on first doses in over 80s."

Ah yes, lets look at an incomplete dose for a tiny subset of the population, and ignore the many previous full regime studies.

Even if AZ could match pfizer for the normal strain(unlikely), we know your product is an utter failure against the SA strain. Its so bad that south africa gave away millions of the AZ doses after realizing they were worthless.

Plan for the future seb, not for the present.
Seb
Member
Wed Mar 03 14:02:44
PHE is Public Health England (English equivalent of CDC, sort of).

Data is based on all 70+ and 80+ people in England (we can do that because we have an IT infrastructure that actually works).

At 7.5m, that is a much bigger trial sample than an the vaccine trials out together.

This is also the segment from which most deaths occur, so it's a highly salient segment of the population, and one undersampled in the trials.

So yes. It's more statistically significant than the trials and focusing on the more economically,politically and public health relevant segment than the trials.

RE your off topic sashay into SA variant (to avoid accepting what you yourself evidently believe to be a humiliating error): the data so far says AZ is effective at preventing severe cases of SA variant; but not moderate cases. The data on Pfizer suggests it is 60% less effective.

Both are working on SA specific variants.

Happily the SA variant isn't able to spread much in the UK as the Kent variant spreads faster. Given the rate of first doses, it is entirely possible we will reach herd immunity such that SA will never be able to grow exponentially, and if it does, will result in some bad flu not lots of deaths.


Seb
Member
Wed Mar 03 14:04:15
I also understand vaccine hesitancy is highest among white republicans in the States, more than black or other minorities.

So it's not surprising you have problems with this area Sam.
habebe
Member
Wed Mar 03 14:13:07
Afaik ,blacks and females ( especially black females) are the most hesitant....over 90% or so vote Democrat.

Not surprising when the VP ( black female) said she wouldn't trust the vaccinne before she back peddled.
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 03 14:41:20
"PHE is Public Health England"

Ahhh, so indeed third world.

"
RE your off topic sashay into SA variant".

Why do you possibly consider the most threatening variant to be off topic? Because it makes you look bad?

You can have your third world vax that is useless against the most immenent threat in a few months. I'll stick with the superior US products.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Wed Mar 03 15:47:37
The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, called ChAdOx1, was approved for use in Canada on Friday following clinical trials in the United Kingdom and Brazil that showed a 62.1 per cent efficacy in reducing symptomatic cases of COVID-19 cases among those given the vaccine. Experts have said any vaccine with an efficacy rate of over 50 per cent could help stop outbreaks.

http://www...vid-19-health-canada-1.5929079
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 03 17:11:23
Poor canada must be desperate
Seb
Member
Thu Mar 04 02:21:18
Sam:

It's not the most threatening variant for the reasons stated; nor is it useless. It's effective at preventing serious forms of the disease so will greatly reduce fatality.

The Pfizer is German tech, not American. Pfizer just provided capital and trials.

How many mistakes can Sam make in one post.
jergul
large member
Thu Mar 04 02:28:53
Appropriating German tech since 1945 (and arguably 1918).
smart dude
Member
Thu Mar 04 02:41:23
"Stealing" Nazi tech/expertise and putting it into the hands of the Allies is now considered something to ridicule? Let me jot that down.
Seb
Member
Thu Mar 04 02:45:59
Jergul:

Not just Germany. America has been taking European technology and claiming it as their from Radar, Jet Engines and Atomics all the way back to the mechanical loom by way of the light bulb.
smart dude
Member
Thu Mar 04 02:49:37
Big Bad America at it again. Who, by the way, colonized "America" in the first place? Durrrrrrrr....

What a stupid line of thought. "America" isn't a sentient being. It's a piece of land. Like any other country. "America" doesn't "claim" anything. Just stop your childishness. "America stole my lollipop! Waaaahhhhh."

Grow up. What a dumb pissing contest, even by pissing contest standards.
jergul
large member
Thu Mar 04 03:04:31
It puts a nice perspective on whining about tech transfers to China.

Taking patents from German entities and giving them to US entities. Nice! Technically, the allies siezed all German patents and only allowed for new patents in 1949.

Patents as we know, are issued to private entities almost exclusively (though government may in turn own those entities). Government industrial secrets are protected by secrecy legislation and would by definition not file for patent.
Seb
Member
Thu Mar 04 03:06:36
Smart Dude:

" Who, by the way, colonized "America" in the first place? "

Why, the rejects of European society who had failed to compete in Europe, of course!

"What a stupid line of thought."
How serious do you think Jergul and I are being here.

"It's a piece of land. Like any other country."
Is there such a thing as a general American outlook/shared cultural traits?

Would, for example, Sam - who jergul and I are very gently ribbing here - take the same expansive view of say, Muslims or Blacks - or would he argue they are all representative examples and therefore be individually treated as having the aspects he attaches to that general population?



smart dude
Member
Thu Mar 04 04:08:50
"Is there such a thing as a general American outlook/shared cultural traits?"

Something something hamburgers?

"Would, for example, Sam...?"

No idea, you gotta ask him.



Seb
Member
Thu Mar 04 04:57:09
smart:
"Something something hamburgers?"

Being serious for a moment: American exceptionalism, manifest destiny etc. there's a long standing history of an American national self Identity and self-assigned attributes assigned to "Americans" - as there is with every other nationality. The reality is of course, as with every other nationality - somewhat more complex and nuanced and emergent cultural properties do not necessarily project back on any given individual.

"No idea, you gotta ask him."

I don't - I already know, he has previous ;)
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Mar 04 12:57:30
"America has been taking European technology and claiming it as their from Radar, Jet Engines and Atomics all the way back to the mechanical loom by way of the light bulb."

So seb, why does all this tech migrate to america to thrive and excel?
Seb
Member
Thu Mar 04 13:32:28
Tech doesn't migrate, you idjit. You manufactured stuff exploiting economy of scale while tarrifing imports. Or rather manufactured.

China does most of that now and are copying your business model.

Oh the irony.
Seb
Member
Thu Mar 04 13:33:06
19th C America was the China of the day.
Rugian
Member
Thu Mar 04 14:35:27
Is Seb seriously knocking America for pilfering other countries' stuff?

You know, Seb, the guy whose country is only as wealthy as it is thanks to the compound interest generated from the financial gains derived by its former empire?

I think my head might explode from the irony here.
Rugian
Member
Thu Mar 04 14:41:52
"[H]how much money was really taken out of India [during the colonial period]? In a collection of essays published recently by Columbia University Press, [Utsa] Patnaik attempts to make a comprehensive estimate. Over roughly 200 years, the East India Company and the British Raj siphoned out at least £9.2 trillion (or $44.6 trillion; since the exchange rate was $4.8 per pound sterling during much of the colonial period).

http://www...ion-from-India-Utsa-Patna.html

But but but America stole technology from literal Nazis who literally started a world war. Waaaaaah
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Mar 04 18:00:24
"Tech doesn't migrate, you idjit."

Obviously i meant all the great minds migrated to the US. Leaving only the mediocre socialists behind. Lol dumbtard.

"China does most of that now and are copying your business model."

Good for them. We are fat and complacent full of whiny losers like you. They teach their kids math and industry. You teach your kids to whine to their 6 dads that identify as turtles and that incompetence is ok.
Daemon
Member
Fri Mar 05 02:05:49
Side note: the Johnson & Johnson vaccine was developed by its European subsidiary Janssen.
Seb
Member
Fri Mar 05 02:53:08
Rugian:

I'm mocking Sam's nationalism. It sounds like you agree that talking in nationalist terms is silly.

"£9.2 trillion"
So, about 4 years of curent UK GDP.

"thanks to the compound interest"
Interest does not fall from heaven and the UK does not generate much of it's wealth from overseas investments.

Sam:
"Obviously i meant all the great minds migrated to the US."
Demonstrably false, if the people migrated, you wouldn't have needed to copy the technology, and you have to pretend the drug being manufactured by Pfizer was developed by it, and not a German company. It would be an American company.

"We are fat and complacent full of whiny losers like you. They teach their kids math and industry"

Speak for yourself.

https://data.oecd.org/pisa/mathematics-performance-pisa.htm

https://data.oecd.org/pisa/science-performance-pisa.htm#indicator-chart

At least you are above OECD average in science, but not much good if you are shit at maths.
Seb
Member
Fri Mar 05 02:54:36
Sam is just but hurt that the Pfizer Jab was actually the product of a team founded and led by a Turkish immigrant to Germany.

It's literally the antithesis of everything he stands for.

It would only have been more terrible for him if it had been an American of the wrong skin colour.
Sam Adams
Member
Fri Mar 05 12:06:59
Intelligent people with useful skills are allowed to migrate to my country all they want, dumbseb.

"Sam is just but hurt that the Pfizer Jab was actually the product of a team founded and led by a Turkish immigrant to Germany."

Sooo... not the UK. Lol fail.
Paramount
Member
Mon Mar 08 01:08:23
It’s Putin again:

Russian Disinformation Campaign Aims to Undermine Confidence in Pfizer, Other Covid-19 Vaccines, U.S. Officials Say

WASHINGTON—Russian intelligence agencies have mounted a campaign to undermine confidence in Pfizer Inc.’s and other Western vaccines, using online publications that in recent months have questioned the vaccines’ development and safety, U.S. officials said.

An official with the State Department’s Global Engagement Center, which monitors foreign disinformation efforts, identified four publications that he said have served as fronts for Russian intelligence.

The websites played up the vaccines’ risk of side effects, questioned their efficacy, and said the U.S. had rushed the Pfizer vaccine through the approval process, among other false or misleading claims.

Though the outlets’ readership is small, U.S. officials say they inject false narratives that can be amplified by other Russian and international media.

Though the outlets’ readership is small, U.S. officials say they inject false narratives that can be amplified by other Russian and international media.

“We can say these outlets are directly linked to Russian intelligence services,” the Global Engagement Center official said of the sites behind the disinformation campaign. “They’re all foreign-owned, based outside of the United States. They vary a lot in their reach, their tone, their audience, but they’re all part of the Russian propaganda and disinformation ecosystem.”

In addition, Russian state media and Russian government Twitter accounts have made overt efforts to raise concerns about the cost and safety of the Pfizer vaccine in what experts outside the U.S. government say is an effort to promote the sale of Russia’s rival Sputnik V vaccine.

“The emphasis on denigrating Pfizer is likely due to its status as the first vaccine besides Sputnik V to see mass use, resulting in a greater potential threat to Sputnik’s market dominance,” says a forthcoming report by the Alliance for Securing Democracy, a nongovernmental organization that focuses on the danger that authoritarian governments pose to democracies and that is part of the German Marshall Fund, a U.S. think tank.

The foreign efforts to sow doubts about the vaccine exploit deep-seated anxieties about the efficacy and side effects of vaccines that were already prevalent in some communities in the U.S. and internationally. Concern about side effects is a major reason for vaccine hesitancy, according to U.S. Census Bureau data made public last month.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov denied that Russian intelligence agencies were orchestrating articles against Western vaccines and said U.S. officials were mischaracterizing the broad international debate over vaccines as a Russian plot.

“It’s nonsense. Russian special services have nothing to do with any criticism against vaccines,” Mr. Peskov said in a telephone interview from Moscow. “If we treat every negative publication against the Sputnik V vaccine as a result of efforts by American special services, then we will go crazy because we see it every day, every hour and in every Anglo-Saxon media.”

Continues: http://www...y-11615129200?mod=hp_lead_pos1


I read an article on AstraZeneca’s vaccine on SVT (Swedish national public television broadcaster) the other day. It reported that two women died recently after taking AstraZeneca’s vaccine. Now I wonder if SVT is also a part of Russia’s propaganda and disinformation ecosystem. Is SVT controlled by Putin?
Seb
Member
Mon Mar 08 02:42:36
Paramount:

Let's say you successfully AstroTurf a vaccine skeptic movement or make it more salient than it would be.

The media will then see it as a matter of public interest.

And vaccine skeptics are always there to provide specific incidents that are utterly irrelevant*, the great thing about this kind of psyops is you don't need to do much but create the impression among journalists that there is public interest in something, and Western media will do the heavy lifting. And Twitter is great for this because it's the platform of choice for journalists.


* (given the fact we are vaccinating people at scale and the oldest first, it's expected that people will die soon after getting the vaccine for entirely unrelated reasons).



patom
Member
Mon Mar 08 12:28:55
On a good note, there may be a treatment for Covid that will keep you out of the hospital.

http://www...18MfxKgPxxpS0pTw33lo-1C_sIvsJ0
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Mar 08 12:55:55
Got the pfizer!!! Woohoo!!
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Mar 08 13:11:59
http://www...nce-pandemic-began/ar-BB1emYPF


I feel like we are hearing the bugle call as the cavalry arrives.

"In the past week, an average of 2.16 million vaccine doses per day were administered in the U.S., with the total number of shots reaching 90.4 million"

The end is sight!!! At this pace most Americans who want the vax should get it in the next month or 2. Including both artificial and natural immunity some 50% of the US has at least some. herd immunity is just around the corner!
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 08 17:02:32
Sammy
Exactly how many Americans do you think have been vaccinated?
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 08 17:05:16
http://www...-in-your-state?t=1615244592296

Answer: About 50 million have had one or two shots and about 30 million have had two shots.
jergul
large member
Mon Mar 08 17:08:45
http://www...-COVID-19-cases-in-the-US.aspx

71 million have been infected.

So 120 million have some form of immunity.

Rugian
Member
Mon Mar 08 17:30:59
Assuming every adult American wanted a two-dose vaccine, we're currently about 190 days out from hitting a 100% vaccination rate.

([330,000,000 US population x 78% percent adult population] x 2 doses - 90,400,000 doses already administered) / 2,200,000 doses administered/day

Of course, increasing vaccine production rates, distribution of the J&J vaccine, and percentage of the population that already had the virus means actual herd immunity will take place much closer to Sam's timeline.

It's gonna be a fun as shit summer.
Rugian
Member
Mon Mar 08 17:37:40
Anyway, here's the real reason Covid has been so deadly here, we just eat too many Big Macs:

"Over Half of COVID-19 Hospitalizations Due to 4 Conditions

A recent study conducted by investigators from the Gerald J. and Dorothy R. Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy at Tufts University has suggested that a majority of COVID-19 hospitalizations can be attributed to at least 1 of 4 pre-existing conditions. Results from the study were published in the Journal of the American Heart Association (JAHA).

The four conditions included obesity, hypertension, diabetes and heart failure"

http://www...alizations-due-to-4-conditions

Basically if people weren't fat fucks we wouldn't be seeing nearly as many deaths. Covid is essentially natural selection on steroids.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Mar 08 19:46:30

"71 million have been infected."

Its likely higher than that. 100 million is a better estimate.

Toss in the 50M or so vaxxed and we get almost 50% of the population and more than 50% of the vaccinateable population.

"
It's gonna be a fun as shit summer. "

Sure is. Already planning a huge vaccination barbecue and bonfire for a few weeks from now.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Mar 08 19:47:20
Oh that reminds me time to order more beer and wine.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Mar 08 19:50:15
Its gonna be "fucking lit" as they say
Y2A
Member
Mon Mar 08 20:54:18
going back to NYC at max post memorial day. It is going to be a wild summer after all of this bullshit.
jergul
large member
Tue Mar 09 04:09:39
Sammy
Its not additive. The 50 million with at least one shot include many people who have also had covid.
Pillz
Member
Tue Mar 09 04:40:12
Irrelevant, as infections slow considerably in the summer and vaccination will continue.
patom
Member
Tue Mar 09 04:40:48
CDC now says it's safe for those vaccinate to gather maskless in closed spaces.
Rugian
Member
Tue Mar 09 08:45:07
Patom

Also known as saying the obvious. What would be the point of the vaccine if you still had to isolate?
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Mar 09 13:00:47
"The 50 million with at least one shot include many people who have also had covid."

True. Theres a bit of overlap there.
patom
Member
Tue Mar 09 13:44:31
Probably many of that 50 million didn't know they had it.
Paramount
Member
Wed Mar 10 01:10:16
Brazil broke its record for new daily Covid-19 deaths on Tuesday with nearly 2,000 fatalities, as the pandemic overwhelms hospitals and vaccinations progress slowly.

The Health Ministry reported a daily total of 1,972 new deaths in the country, which has the world's second-highest overall toll, exceeded only by the United States.

It also reported 70,764 new cases of Covid-19, meaning 11.1 million people have now caught the virus in the country, while a total of 268,370 have died.

The previous daily death record was set on March 3 with just over 1,900 fatalities. The figure has been rising steadily over the past two weeks.

Brazil is facing a dire situation with intensive care units more than 80 percent occupied in 25 of Brazil's 27 capital cities, according to a report released Tuesday by public health institute Fiocruz.

"The fight against Covid-19 was lost in 2020 and there is not the slightest chance of reversing this tragic circumstance in the first half of 2021," epidemiologist Jesem Orellana of Fiocruz/Amazonia told AFP.

"The best we can do is hope for the miracle of mass vaccination or a radical change in the management of the pandemic," he said.

"Today, Brazil is a threat to humanity and an open-air laboratory where impunity in management seems to be the rule."

President Jair Bolsonaro, who flouts expert advice on fighting the coronavirus, last week urged Brazilians to "stop whining" about Covid-19.

Continues: http://afp...ly-covid-death-record/a/KyW7KM
Paramount
Member
Wed Mar 10 05:27:07
30 to 100% MORE DEADLY!

LONDON (Reuters) - A highly infectious variant of COVID-19 that has spread around the world since it was first discovered in Britain late last year is between 30% and 100% more deadly than previous strains, researchers said on Wednesday.

http://www...rate-study-finds-idUSKBN2B213E
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Mar 10 11:53:55
Godamn not only did sebs bureaucratic bungling fail to stop covid with track and trace, it was so ineffective that covid spread so massively there it had time to mutate.
jergul
large member
Thu Mar 11 02:19:52
Sammy
Don't do that. Sometimes teasing Seb simply does not justify the amount of science you have to discount.

The virus has mutated more times in the US than the UK by an order of magnitude. Mutation rate is simply a function of the number of virus at any given time.

The US is simply cloaking its contribution to viral mutuation by limiting the amount of rna sequencing the country does.
jergul
large member
Thu Mar 11 02:20:59
More than 4000 mutations have been identified.
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