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Utopia Talk / Politics / Chauvin trial
Rugian
Member
Mon Apr 19 16:28:11
Minneapolis schools are canceling classes out of fear of the riots.

The city itself is heavily fortified with National Guardsmen.

Maxine Waters was in the city over the weekend openly inciting people to riot if the jury votes the "wrong" way.

This is gonna be fun.
Y2A
Member
Mon Apr 19 16:32:37
Chauvin should go to prison. I mean seriously, both to get some justice and to stop the country from imploding.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Apr 19 16:48:56
Judge says maxine waters comments may be grounds to set Chauvin free. Rofl!!!
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Apr 19 16:50:52
Reporters want a civil war or at the very least a race riot. Think how much revenue they can make up now that covid is winding down and trump is gone.
Rugian
Member
Mon Apr 19 16:51:33
Hahahahaha
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Apr 19 16:53:04
A us rep from out of state coming and declaring violenve to a non-sequestered jury... ya... thats a huge red flag.
Rugian
Member
Mon Apr 19 16:53:41
"I'll give you that Congresswoman Waters may have given you something on appeal that may result on this whole trial being overturned," Cahill said.

"This goes back to what I've been saying from the beginning," the judge added. "I wish elected officials would stop talking about this case, particularly in a manner that is disrespectful to the rule of law and the judicial branch in our function. Their failure to do so is abhorrent, but I don't think it has presented us with additional information that would prejudice the jury."

Whoopsie. Lmao!
Paramount
Member
Mon Apr 19 16:54:09
Maxine Waters says she is nonviolent. She may just be very passionate about justice.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Apr 19 16:54:55
Towns should be forming militias and the nat guard should be mobilized in every state*

*except maine, vermont, utah, idaho, montana, and the dakotas
Paramount
Member
Mon Apr 19 16:57:12
Anyhoo... maybe the congresswoman learnt from Trump to incite riots?
Habebe
Member
Mon Apr 19 16:58:56
Sam, Dont forget State militaries. In SC we only are about 1k strong though.
Y2A
Member
Mon Apr 19 17:00:49
when is the verdict supposed to come in?
Habebe
Member
Mon Apr 19 17:03:06
Y2a, I think they are deliberating now, so...anytime.
Y2A
Member
Mon Apr 19 17:06:36
i hadn't been following, guess it was going on for a while then. not too sure how long these trials typically last.
Rugian
Member
Mon Apr 19 17:37:08
Y2A
Member Mon Apr 19 17:06:36
"i hadn't been following,"

That's probably for the best, given that the media coverage of the trial has been a joke. They slobbered all over the prosecution's case and torched the defense.

I even saw one article that said the defense fucked up because, get this, one of their expert witnesses grew up in Rhodesia. Gasp, he must be a racist!

Sam got it exactly right. The media is trying to portray this as a slam-dunk case so people will be extra infuriated if Chauvin ends up getting off. Because now the the orange man is gone, encouraging riots is their best hope for keeping audiences tuned in.
Habebe
Member
Mon Apr 19 17:58:28
The jury should have been sequestered. We dont need a shit show like Amanda Knox im the Uzs legal system.
Habebe
Member
Mon Apr 19 18:02:03
How is maxime waters not an extremist if MT Greene?

Just curious on the defense.
Habebe
Member
Mon Apr 19 18:14:23
If Trump had said to his followers if they elect Biden ( Jan 6) that they need to stay on the street and get more confrontational, what would your reaction be (TW?)
Y2A
Member
Mon Apr 19 18:31:52
does anyone have a video of what was actually said?
Rugian
Member
Mon Apr 19 18:48:30
You mean Maxine?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tnNBvN4ZXms&pp=QACIAgA%3D

Particularly from 6:30 on.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Apr 19 20:10:44
I’m not interested in defending Maxine Waters

however seems milder than:
"So, everybody, I'm telling you, I'm encouraging you, please get on the phone, call your congressman. And feel free, you can lightly threaten them, and say, 'You know what? If you don't start supporting election integrity, I'm coming after you, Madison Cawthorn is coming after you. Everybody's is coming after you"
~ Madison Cawthorn
said in December so ‘supporting election integrity’ meant siding with Trump and tossing out the results
Habebe
Member
Mon Apr 19 20:33:18
TW, Indeed the part about lightly threaten and coming after you sounds like poor wording

Especially the coming after you since he didnt add at the ballot box or through peacefully protest/boycotts etc.

.....

Now I also will say I think Republicans are only going after MW because of the last Trump trial.

Considering I think out of the 3 that Trumps words were the least controversial "fight like hell"

Its more about the double standard. However get more confrontational considering an entire summer of violent riots also seems like poor wording.

What's worse IMO is that Pelosi backs up her statements. They want this as a backdrop to raise support for their agenda(s) which innthe short term it may.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Apr 19 21:11:54
Trump was worse... he fueled anger and mistrust all year (or for. 5 years really), continually misinformed his cult after the election, invited them to DC, enraged them more and directed to the Capitol while suggesting outcome still could be changed by disrupting the vote and telling them Pence failed to do so... he IS the reason for the violent insurrection, there is zero chance that would have occurred without a Trump

people are going to riot on a not guilty verdict, Maxine Waters isn’t changing anything and without anywhere near the influence

but she was wrong for the reasons judge said, but of course Trump way worse when saying Manafort treated unfairly before and during his trial... Trump always way worse...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Apr 19 21:43:45
Chuck Woolery is excited that Marjorie Taylor Green says she'll bring a resolution to expel Maxine Waters from Congress:
http://twitter.com/chuckwoolery/status/1383908272260874240

i don't recall R's having a problem w/ Cawthorn... and for Trump not only couldn't they impeach nor even censure him on anything, instead they had to censure the few people w/ some morals who had a problem w/ Trump poisoning the minds of millions of Americans w/ made-up bullshit & undermining all faith in elections
Habebe
Member
Mon Apr 19 21:45:20
Yes well, you are to Trump what a priest is to Lucifer.

I think we can all agree that its guaranteed rioting, regardless of the outcome, and by the same people.

We don't know whether or not Trumps speech that day made a difference. But its a different aspect since he was the person they were rioting for and the speech giver. Floyd isn't giving speeches other than "I cant breathe".

All in all I do see.this as the Republicans calling out double standards than actual outrage.

Maybe thats just me, I'm also rather desensitized to just about anything.

Habebe
Member
Mon Apr 19 21:46:24
But I also seen the dems as just screaming "orangeman bad" and using whatever to justify it.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Apr 19 22:01:15
"using whatever to justify it"

there was HEAPS to justify it

---

"We don't know whether or not Trumps speech that day made a difference"

it's not just that speech, & there is NO way that angry crowd would have been there packed w/ misinformation w/o Trump... who else would have whipped them into that hostility & over what? he convinced them the election was stolen w/ every claim of mass fraud he could think up or heard from any random tweeter, NONE of which remotely proven, w/ many completely DISproven
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Apr 19 23:33:26
"Chuck Woolery is excited that Marjorie Taylor Green says she'll bring a resolution to expel Maxine Waters from Congress"

If we lived in a logical world, both MTG and maxine would get kicked out.
Habebe
Member
Mon Apr 19 23:39:22
Sam, I'd settle for trial by combat.
Paramount
Member
Tue Apr 20 12:44:48
So when is the verdict? How long do we have to wait? How hard can it be?
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Apr 20 12:48:17
The verdict should come in at any time in the next few days. The jury is under no time limit.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Apr 20 13:40:08
Judge in Derek Chauvin trial says Rep. Maxine Waters' comments may be grounds for appeal

Oh my...
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Apr 20 14:29:36
verdict is in... 4:30 pm EST

gotta be something guilty if that quick
Habebe
Member
Tue Apr 20 14:47:31
What were the options or guilt?
Paramount
Member
Tue Apr 20 14:47:43
President Biden calls George Floyd’s family and says evidence for a guilty verdict is ‘overwhelming.’

President Biden called the family of George Floyd on Monday to express his support and sympathy, telling reporters on Tuesday that the evidence against the former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin was “overwhelming” and that he was praying for the “right verdict.”

- -

It would be funny if Chauvin is acquitted.

But why is the President calling them and telling them that the evidence is overwhelming? He could be given them false hopes. And, if the President says the evidence is overwhelming and if Chauvin is then aquitted, they are only going to get angrier, which may lead to riots.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Apr 20 14:50:18
"gotta be something guilty if that quick"

A day of deliberations is pretty average. Here we go!
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Apr 20 14:53:15
the 3 possibilities:

"
Second-degree murder charge
---------------------------
Second-degree murder is causing the death of a human being, without intent to cause that death, while committing or attempting to commit another felony. In this case, the alleged felony was third-degree assault. Chauvin is charged with committing or intentionally aiding in the commission of this crime.

To convict Chauvin on this count, Judge Peter Cahill told jurors they must find that the former officer intended to commit an assault that could cause bodily harm or intentionally aided in committing such an assault.

“It is not necessary for the state to prove the defendant had an intent to kill Floyd. But it must prove that the defendant committed, or attempted to commit, the underlying felony,” the judge said.

Cahill added that the state must prove that the assault either inflicted bodily harm on Floyd or was intended to commit bodily harm. That essentially could include loss of consciousness, the judge said.

“It is not necessary for the state to prove that the defendant intended to inflict substantial bodily harm, or knew that his actions would inflict substantial bodily harm, only that the defendant intended to commit the assault, and George Floyd sustained substantial bodily harm,” Cahill said.


Third-degree murder charge
--------------------------
Third-degree murder is unintentionally causing someone’s death by committing an act that is eminently dangerous to other persons while exhibiting a depraved mind, with reckless disregard for human life. Chauvin is accused of committing or intentionally aiding in the commission of this crime.

Under Minnesota law, an act that is eminently dangerous is one that “is highly likely to cause death,” Cahill told jurors. “The defendant’s act may not have been specifically intended to cause death,” and “it may not have been specifically directed at the person whose death occurred, but it must have been committed with a conscious indifference to the loss of life,” said the judge.

Cahill ruled last fall that this charge did not fit the Chauvin case because the statute required a showing of danger to other persons. However, a Minnesota appeals court in February upheld the third-degree murder conviction of former Minneapolis police officer Mohamed Noor, who fatally shot Justine Ruszczyk Damond in 2017. Noor's actions were focused solely on Damond.

During jury selection in the Chauvin trial, the appeals court ruled that Cahill should not have dismissed this charge. He subsequently reinstated the allegation. The Minnesota Supreme Court is scheduled to hear an appeal of the Noor decision in June.

Second-degree manslaughter charge
---------------------------------
Second-degree manslaughter is culpable negligence where a person creates an unreasonable risk and consciously takes the chance of causing death or great bodily harm to someone else. Chauvin is charged with committing or intentionally aiding in the commission of this crime.

“Culpable negligence is intentional conduct that the defendant may not have intended to be harmful, but that an ordinary and reasonably prudent person would recognize as having a strong probability of causing injury to others,” Cahill told jurors.

In summing up his legal instructions on the charges, Cahill told the jury there is no crime if a line of duty police officer uses reasonable force to make a lawful arrest. He instructed the jurors to consider the "totality of the facts and circumstances" in deciding whether Chauvin's actions had been reasonable.
"
http://www...ntencing-breakdown/7286597002/

top one seems unlikely, either of the other two seems possible... the weakest one kinda sounds most fitting though wouldn't please the rioters :p
Habebe
Member
Tue Apr 20 14:57:54
2nd degree MS seems feasable.

I guess negligence is off the table.

Even if he died from drugs, they definitley prolonged needed medical attention.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Tue Apr 20 16:07:30
guilty on all 3

so it will be riots of celebration
Paramount
Member
Tue Apr 20 16:09:30
So Biden’s prayers were effective?
habebe
Member
Tue Apr 20 16:12:20
Paramount, Odds are they "fortified" the verdict.

can't say I disagree with this one. Let him appeal for justice but, the death toll would have been insane other wise.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Apr 20 16:17:47
This is like an absultion for the leftist religious cult.
Forwyn
Member
Tue Apr 20 16:19:26
Now we wait for the case to be thrown out and state to not pursue again
habebe
Member
Tue Apr 20 16:21:39
I mean listen, one dirty cop is a small sacrifice to pay for riots like we havnt seen since Rodney King.

And he should have called for medical help instead of kneeling on his neck.

Now the Biden prayer thing was creepy.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Apr 20 20:17:20
Have to admit I was surprised by the verdict! The lesser charge seemed *possible* if the jury wanted a concession or to put their fingers on the scale a little — but guilty on *all* charges? These jurors did not look at the evidence. Another O.J. situation — the "right" jurors in the box using their power to get revenge for perceived ills.

On the plus side, this really puts the protestors at a loss. They were so sure they'd have an excuse to burn and loot regardless of the outcome. Even the barely reasonable lesser charge would still have meant a riot. But riots for guilty on all charges? They'd just look like soccer hooligans after a win — a public perception improvement that BLM would not accept ;D
(There will probably be rioting anyways, of course. People probably flew in for violence-tourism, and those were non-refundable guided tours of burning car dealerships)

..
[habebe]: "And he should have called for medical help instead of kneeling on his neck."

Umm... wut? They had already called EMS and were waiting for them to arrive.

..
[Forwyn]: "Now we wait for the case to be thrown out and state to not pursue again"

Accurate.
There were a number of issues throughout the trial which could well have resulted in on-the-spot mistrials. E.g., there were potential issues with jury intimidation when a representative of prosecution witness Darnella Frazier took a cell phone picture of the inside of the courtroom, and the judge himself admitted that Maxine Waters' threats of violence would be grounds for an appeal and vacated charges. And *if* any of the jurors get an ego and decide to reveal their motivations and those motivations indicate juror misconduct, that would be more fuel for appeal. The success of an appeal would depend on whether or not the defense could get out of Minneapolis.
habebe
Member
Tue Apr 20 21:27:33
CC, I didnt know that, my bad.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Apr 20 22:19:26
Why do so many blacks think its so important for criminals to be treated with kid gloves at all times. Is it... nah... it cant be that?
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Apr 20 22:49:22
And now the leftist community is outraged that police just shot and killed another black chick...

... who was trying to stab someone with a giant knife.

Does the left want a civil war?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Apr 21 00:25:26
the black chick shooting video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpnibt9RQ2U

6:40 for regular speed video
~10:00 for slow-mo (can see knife much easier)
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Apr 21 00:35:01
“Ma’Khia had a motherly nature about her. She promoted peace”
~ mother

http://twitter.com/LaceyCrisp/status/1384678383615946753

although supposedly Ma’Khia was in foster care so this mother probably just trying to cash in for her drug habit
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Apr 21 01:36:05
I love it, her mother be like ”she was so motherly”. I don’t know about you guys, but did your mother stab people with a knife? Mine didn’t, at least not infront of me. I will ask her just to be sure.

Should civilians be willing to get stabbed, so the police can err on the side of caution? I mean that knife a couple of stabs, probably wouldn’t have killed the girl. Her stabbing technique was poor. A navy seal trained cop probably could have seen that and subdued the girl without shooting her.

Still that was a 16 year old girl, right? Where do the citizens of UP stand on stabby sue’s shooting?
kargen
Member
Wed Apr 21 01:38:29
"Why do so many blacks think its so important for criminals to be treated with kid gloves at all times."

Goes back to when rap/hip-hop artists thought they needed to get arrested a few times for street cred. After decades of perpetuating that life style it only stands to reason they make heroes out of known criminals.
Habebe
Member
Wed Apr 21 01:44:39
"I love it, her mother be like ”she was so motherly”. I don’t know about you guys, but did your mother stab people with a knife?"

My mom chased a guy out of our house with a frying pan (cast iron), I was young, and apparently he was being an asshole to my dad.

I'll with hold my judgement till I watch the video for shabby jo.
Habebe
Member
Wed Apr 21 01:46:02
Also, it seems odd for an estranged mom to call her teen daughter "motherly" as if the mom was an addict and the daughter cared for her growing up instead of reverse.
Habebe
Member
Wed Apr 21 01:59:51
So I watched the real time video.

Normally I'd say he should have tried to non fatally shoot/haze.

But when someone is chasing someone down and that close trying to stab the victim, I think odds are he saved a life.Good split second reactions.

Easter eggs

1. I love that they use VLC player, plays fucking any video.

2. Take notice of the guy in the back right of the video with his hands up,

This was justified, almost suicide by cop. She chased down a victim in front of a cop with a knife well within lethal range.
Habebe
Member
Wed Apr 21 02:06:39
Ok slow motion was a bit more clear, she attacked 2 women. The guy kicked the girl while she was down, but maybe trying to get her out ofnthe way?

Then staby goes after the girl in the sweat suit.

His fast reactions may have saved 2 lives.

I'm not sure if a Razer would have been effective.

I feel bad for the cop. Even the people around seemed releived he was there and stopped her.
Forwyn
Member
Wed Apr 21 07:26:36
Only way this turns out to be a tragedy of a shoot is if some claims that it was her house, that she was the one who called the cops, were true.

But 99.999999% of dindu claims at the time of the story break are bullshit, so it's probably just as good of a shoot as it appears to be.
Habebe
Member
Wed Apr 21 08:17:43
Forwyn, Not even, she tried to stab two people as the aggressor. When the first fell to the ground she turned and went after the other girl unprovoked.

The cops put that video out there asap because they knew it would exonerate them and because ofnthe timing they knew certain people were on a hair trigger to riot.
Forwyn
Member
Wed Apr 21 09:10:10
Maybe. We didn't see the ten seconds prior. Maybe the kicking dude is the only reason she was able to get out from under a dogpile?

There's a very thin and specific scenario where she might have been justified, or at least understandable, lashing out at aggressors.

But it's unlikely this played out, dindus follow a pattern and there's no reason to believe the story that she's a saint. Occam's Razor says she could have deescalated by brandishing and didn't, she actively pursued them, so there's probably not an elaborate backstory that justifies her actions, the shoot is likely as good as it appears to be.
patom
Member
Wed Apr 21 09:42:10
At what time are officers supposed to allow a knife attack to continue?
How are officers or anyone else able to ascertain the age of people showing aggression with a knife or gun?
I heard one person say, "She's only a child". Turns out she was 16. If memory serves me, Billy the Kid was only 17 when he started killing people. Should the cop explain to this apparently out of control 16 year old that she should wait till she turned 17 before she starts her killing spree? But wait. He didn't know she was only 16. She didn't look like a frail little girl.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Apr 21 11:56:46
i doubt it will become a big debate media story
Cherub Cow
Member
Wed Apr 21 21:37:20
[Forwyn]: "the shoot is likely as good as it appears to be."

Yeah. It's pretty tough to argue with the still frame of knife-kid going for the head area of pink-suit — who had already shown her empty hands. That could easily be fatal, so lethal force was justified. And with a knife already in the throat area, the best officer option was the one with the greatest immediate stopping power. A shoot does not get a lot cleaner than that.
Habebe
Member
Wed Apr 21 21:47:22
http://www...dd-877c-41e9-a71a-291d76993842

Protests chanting "black lives matter" and "say her name" locally.....

I mean, it was almost suicide by cop.
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