Utopia Talk / Politics / wokism fully realized.....

habebe Member	Thu Apr 22 21:23:19 http://www...erated-math-courses-equity.amp Virginia moving to eliminate all accelerated math courses before 11th grade as part of equity-focused plan
Sam Adams Member	Fri Apr 23 00:33:41 If you cant being blacks up to white/asian levels... Bring asians and whites down to black levels. Thats some dystopian shit.
Paramount Member	Fri Apr 23 00:53:43 I didn’t read the article, but it sounds almost like communism. Everyone should have it equally bad. But, shouldn’t all pupils follow the curriculum at it is? All the quick pupils needs to chill out a little bit, relax, and maybe repeat the courses until the rest has catched up.
Paramount Member	Fri Apr 23 00:55:05 *as it is
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Apr 23 02:29:50 Paramount, that isn't communism, that is the Swedish system. I was twice during primary school, once in 1st grade for math and english and then again in 7th grade (natural sciences), put in "advanced classes". Some where around that time, all such programs disappeared from the Swedish school system. People do not remember, but such programs actually existed in Sweden.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Apr 23 02:37:37 Sorry I lied, 3rd grade and 7th.
Dukhat Member	Fri Apr 23 02:40:20 I had to retake all that shit when I went to college anyways. And I thought that colleges gave a shit when they don't at all. So whatever. Advanced math classes are just a way to have all the foreign kids with high-pressure but stupid parents waste even more of their time studying instead of living life. So fuck it.
jergul large member	Fri Apr 23 03:42:27 I am not adverse to high schools offering college/university credit courses. Valuable in particular in the US given how hideously expensive a semester is. But here at least, teachers are expected to provide individualized material for pupils. Special classes are redundant.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Apr 23 05:28:38 Ok, but that isn't actually a realistic expectation to have on high school /primary school teachers and their average abilities and comptency - that they individualize the curriculum. There simply isn't enough time and impossible to scale, it breaks the entire idea of "mass education". It works the same way you let the special needs students go in their own class, because they have needs that require specific competency, more time/resources and a completely different form of pedagogy. A high school teacher, doesn't have the competency to teach university level courses to high schoolers.
habebe Member	Fri Apr 23 06:00:27 Ive always been intrigued by Germany's apprentice sort of thing with high schools ...a little off topic. But on that note, growing up wr had upper Bucks votech as part of HS (optional) that just isnt available in the same way that it is down south where vo tech schools are part of after HS education on a pay basis which I think has a direct correlation to the lack of quality contractors down here in comparison. Union prevalence may also play a role.
jergul large member	Fri Apr 23 09:31:07 Nimi I am just saying what is codified in law here. Pupils have the right to individualized education in their classroom setting. Special needs students are not generally taken out into special classes either. It seems to me a realistic expectation that instead of dedicating teaching resources to special needs outside the classroom, you can meet those needs in the classroom. The addendum here would be that university level classes can be offered in highschool with teachers qualified to teach those classes. 60% of primary school teachers in Norway are qualified to teach university level courses. You just need a masters degree after all.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Apr 23 10:46:41 Jergul The law, says the same thing here, but reality is something different. Reality is that advanced students are of least concern, especially from a budget perspective, "they'll be fine". I went in a school where special needs students were in the same class room, and I mean, hooked up to a ventilator special needs, one kid walking with an oxygen tube on wheels. All these kids had their own personal assistants who looked after their needs. High school kids are assholes towards their non-disabled peers, how do you think that went? Well at least these kids got an authentic high school experience, I can tell you that much. The kid with the oxygen tube was taunted with a lighter on a couple of occasions. He used to yell at people running in the halls, afraid they would knock his tube and explode everything. "It seems to me a realistic expectation that instead of dedicating teaching resources to special needs outside the classroom, you can meet those needs in the classroom." It isn't the classroom setting, but the devoted resources that is unrealistic to expect from the 1 teacher each class has. You have 25 kids 4 are retarded, 3 are advanced. It isn't the work of 1 teacher to cover that in the same classroom. Especially not in grade 1-6 where you have 1 teacher, cover every topic. "qualified to teach university level courses" You actually only need to pass the course to teach them, in the university. So, in theory I can teach it, but reality is that most teachers are quite average people with average abilities. It fits the average student just fine.
Habebe Member	Fri Apr 23 10:54:56 " It seems to me a realistic expectation that instead of dedicating teaching resources to special needs outside the classroom, you can meet those needs in the classroom." It seems more practical to separate them based on general needs/ability. The US varies not just from state to state but greatly from district, so there isn't really one standard form of education. My school had mix of special classes and special aides to help kids in regular classes
jergul large member	Fri Apr 23 11:29:23 Nimi Are you arguing that gifted pupils need really talented teachers to learn their advanced curriculum? That does not sound very gifted of them. It seems an average, qualified teacher could do that job just fine. Most classes typically have close to 2 teachers.
jergul large member	Fri Apr 23 11:35:08 habebe We call that a sorting society here. Better for gifted students to just jumpstart college level courses instead of priming for SAT tests for a few years. If that is what you want. Or you could just adapt their workload to their abilities within a normal classroom setting.
Habebe Member	Fri Apr 23 12:01:54 I went to Pennridge, which was a pretty decent school district. And again each district will have vastly different set ups. But yeah, we had a variety of paths and routes. Pennridge consistently ranked very well statewide in every area except diversity...;)
chuck Member	Fri Apr 23 12:05:51 Truancy is a criminal offense. Schools are brimming with kids who wouldn't be there otherwise. Part of the function of American schools is "here's a place to stick teenagers during the day so they can't get into too much trouble." While schools are being used for the dual purposes of instruction and teenage daycare, I don't see the benefit of making the kids trying to learn do so in a teenage daycare environment. Make it easier for people to a) drop out and b) make up ground in their 20s without the stigma of a GED when they realize they were being dipshits by dropping out. Then - once everybody at school is there for school - maaaaybe having undifferentiated classrooms makes more sense. But yeah, keep your daycare out my kid's math class. The logic of "daycare classes do not demonstrate good learning outcomes" is not a good reason to put every kid into daycare classes.
hood Member	Fri Apr 23 12:10:42 "I had to retake all that shit when I went to college anyways." So you didn't pass the AP test for college credit? Just about any college you applied to in the midwest accepted AP credit. A quick google suggests that Cali schools also accept AP credit.
chuck Member	Fri Apr 23 12:15:02 ^ same, 5 on Lang, 4 on Stats and decent foreign language placement test saved me a semester's worth of college classes.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Apr 23 12:17:19 Jergul I’m arguing that tayloring the curiculum individually doesn’t actually happen, because there isn’t time or money for that. One example is the natural science program I was in, there simply wasn’t enough money for every kid to be included, so they took the kids with the best grades. The program involved a lot of time in lab experimenting, while the other kids were sitting in a different class room reading books.
chuck Member	Fri Apr 23 12:28:16 Also re my last post, since some people will be happy to stay forever but be disruptive rather than opting out, I feel the policy could also be made to work if schools were much more liberal with doling out expulsions. If school is a privilege that you can lose for being disruptive instead of a daycare that has to take you and tolerate you unless you shank somebody, this would also obviate the need for teenage daycare departments.
Habebe Member	Fri Apr 23 12:33:14 In other woke news, Caitlyin Jenner is running forngovernor of CA...and even after cutting his dick off might still be better than Newsom...
Y2A Member	Sat Apr 24 11:24:07 as a GQPer.
Rugian Member	Sat Apr 24 11:27:25 Yeah a literal mentally ill person would still be better than Newsom. One-party rule has destroyed CA.
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