Utopia Talk - Politics - Chinese space station

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Chinese space station

Paramount
Member Thu Apr 29 06:29:34
China builds its own space station expected to be operational in 2022.

The International Space Station is to be retired in 2024.

I guess the US won’t have a space station after that?

http://apn...4d9292eb82fe11eafef6e9cd1c19b4

Habebe
Member Thu Apr 29 06:49:47
I don't know. IIRC The Artemis Lunar base was aimed for 2024, but I guess that depends on how quickly they can master Starship like they have the Falcon9/heavy.

Habebe
Member Thu Apr 29 06:50:25
Are the Russians building their own soace station too? Or isnthat a collaboration?

Nekran
Member Thu Apr 29 07:31:29
I thought the ISS mission was prolonged until 2030.

Paramount
Member Thu Apr 29 07:31:33
They are building one together with China. So I guess China will have 2 space stations.

Paramount
Member Thu Apr 29 07:49:37
Nekran

According to BBC:

The ISS is due to be retired after 2024, which could potentially leave Tiangong as the only space station in Earth's orbit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56924370

Paramount
Member Thu Apr 29 07:54:27
Habebe

China and Russia to build lunar space station

China and Russia have announced plans to build a lunar space station.

Russian space agency Roscosmos says it has signed an agreement with China's National Space Administration to develop research facilities on the surface of the moon, in orbit or both.

A statement from both countries' space agencies says it will be available for use by other nations.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56342311

So China will have one space station of their own, and then they will have one together with Russia, AND they even say that the USA may get to use it.

This is a BIG DEAL!

"Chen Lan, an analyst who specialises in China's space programme, told AFP news agency that the project was a "big deal"."

Paramount
Member Thu Apr 29 07:56:09
"The ISS is due to be retired after 2024"

Well, 2030 is after 2024. lol. So maybe you are right, the ISS may continue to be in use until 2030.

chuck
Member Thu Apr 29 08:24:44
> I guess the US won’t have a space station after that?

Bruh. Space stations are irrelevant right now. As currently designed, SpaceX's Starship can sling 100 tons to LEO per launch. That's 1/4th the mass of ISS. Add to that, Starship's internal volume is equal to the ISS, so you could just park one in LEO and call it a space station if you like.

That heavy lift capability is going to instantly obsolete everything that came before when it comes online. Nothing else worth watching in space right now IMO, esp not China.

chuck
Member Thu Apr 29 08:31:50
Incidentally, Starship SN15 is scheduled to launch no earlier than today so if you pay attention you might catch that one going up and coming back down in the next few hours.

Lots of upgrades over previous test articles. Skipped SN12-14 because they felt like they knew everything they needed to know from the previous gen tests. Decent chance they stick the belly flop + landing maneuver for the first time this launch.

Habebe
Member Thu Apr 29 11:37:56
When it comes to reliably and CHEAPLY getting payloads to space, SpaceX seems light years ahead of everyone else.

http://www...-vs-elon-musks-falcon-9-10.htm

By next year china HOPES* to have costs down to $10k per kilo.

Mean while Falcon9's can deliver CURRENTLY* at $2720 per kilo.

I should note that 10k is still fairly cheap, and is probably better than anyone other than SpaceX, but it still isn't operable.

I read recently that the Euro space Center had been working on a 10 year project for cheap space travel as a niche business.They have all but scrapped it since its not reusable Spaces already is delivering cheaper reliability than they were hoping to achieve...Ill.check for the article.

Has china made a reliable.re usable rocket yet?

Paramount
Member Thu Apr 29 11:41:17
I don’t know. But they will get there one day. The US is currently ahead.

Habebe
Member Thu Apr 29 11:46:15
But really only because of a Dutch African American immigrant...Ironic.

Habebe
Member Thu Apr 29 11:47:06
Well, policy wise I have to give credit to Obama Probably the best thing he did.

jergul
large member Thu Apr 29 11:52:32
Its amusing to me that you just got a 1.9 trillion dollar stimmy bill, but think costs matter for prestige projects.

At 10k per kg, how many tons of could you have put into orbit for that stimmy package?

TheChildren
Member Thu Apr 29 12:04:55
truly, GLORY!!!

another glorious day. tc been playin daysgone all day and only now saw this. what a fantastic glorious day

Habebe
Member Thu Apr 29 13:16:15
"At 10k per kg, how many tons of could you have put into orbit for that stimmy package?"

About 4x more than of spacex sent it .

If costs don't matter why does Norway not have a space project?

I'm sure you can grasp that we have spent ALOT of money over the years into this, with massive cost reductions we can do much more and accelerate the learning process.

Its why SpaceX operates differently than traditional space agencies. They prefer to test it out in real world settings over theoretical testing like NASA did.

$7500 is ALOT of money when a single rocket can send 64 metric tons.

chuck
Member Thu Apr 29 14:48:33
Falcon 9 is already eating the global launch market's lunch. China is second biggest launcher iirc, but they've also got a captive market.

Per Musk, Starship launch costs (fuel + ops) might drop as low as $2,000,000 per Starship use.

At 100 metric ton to LEO payload capacity, that would be $2000/metric ton or $2/kg. Prestige funding won't matter with that many orders of magnitude separating them and their competitors cost-wise.

If the novel landing maneuver can be pulled off and they are right about stainless steel construction + belly flop orientation avoiding Shuttle-esque heat shield refurbishments, it will be a whole new game.

chuck
Member Thu Apr 29 14:49:56
*the above, but with better math

$20,000/metric ton
$20/kg

habebe
Member Thu Apr 29 14:55:45
For reference I was refencing Falcon heavy, which is smaller than starship.*

habebe
Member Thu Apr 29 15:11:25
In other news I seen perseverance extracted oxygen on Mars...pretty cool.

chuck
Member Thu Apr 29 15:20:45
Copy copy copy copy.

http://ars...ring-of-a-starship-look-alike/

jergul
large member Thu Apr 29 15:41:58
Chuck
You are arguing revolutionary design and you expect no copies if it works?

Sam Adams
Member Thu Apr 29 16:00:07
Of course china will try to copy it. Copying a spaceship aint copying a slab of steel or solar panel however.

China has been trying to reverse engineer the A320 and 737 for two decades and is no where near Boeing/airbus levels of reliability, safety, and efficiency. Hard to copy something so complex.

jergul
large member Fri Apr 30 01:36:50
Any chinese planes crash upside down recently?

habebe
Member Fri Apr 30 04:38:51
Its very possible, they havnt seemed to master landing on an ACC yet.

TheChildren
Member Fri Apr 30 04:59:18
our station owns! just OWNS!
it looks soooo GOOD!

Rugian
Member Fri Apr 30 06:28:59
I literally had to look up what the Chinese knockoff of the 737 actually is, that's how irrelevant China is in the airliner industry.

Apparently it's a plane called a Comac C919. Maiden flight took place in 2017 and only Chinese companies have any interest in buying it.

Whoop dee fucking doo jergul. Talk to us about which plane has a better safety record after Comac has been around for half a century like the 737.

TheChildren
Member Fri Apr 30 06:46:57
yea and boeing meanwhile has plane rottin in deserts becoz so many people bought them right?

haha OWNED.

Sam Adams
Member Fri Apr 30 09:07:21
" jergul
large member Fri Apr 30 01:36:50
Any chinese planes crash upside down recently?"

Hard to crash when you dont fly.

Rugian
Member Fri Apr 30 09:09:35
Air China is pretty based though, i have to admit.

"Air China's inflight magazine Wings of China faced accusations of racism when they stated "London is generally a safe place to travel, however precautions are needed when entering areas mainly populated by Indians, Pakistanis and black people." in their September 2016 issue."

Sam Adams
Member Fri Apr 30 09:13:21
China in some ways is smart.

TheChildren
Member Sat May 01 14:10:07
What a glorious achievement.
Once again China amazes da world.

What a glory. What a glory!

TheChildren
Member Sat May 01 14:22:30
by da way, we launched 3 rockets in 1 week.

BADASS!!!!

OWNED!!!

Hrothgar
Member Sat May 01 17:51:46
China vs an American private company is the space race we've been waiting for since the collapse of the soviet union?

Habebe
Member Sat May 01 18:35:25
Yeah, other than Spacex the others suck ( blue origin)

Daemon
Member Sun May 02 01:58:43
http://new...s-space-station-180416640.html

A huge rocket from China's space-station launch could fall back to Earth totally uncontrolled
(…)

Paramount
Member Sun May 02 02:23:24
” "I think by current standards it's unacceptable to let it reenter uncontrolled," Jonathan McDowell, an astronomer who tracks objects orbiting Earth, told Jones. "Since 1990 nothing over 10 tons has been deliberately left in orbit to reenter uncontrolled."

But it was acceptable for America during their early and mid-years of space rocketry. What happened in 1990?

Paramount
Member Sun May 02 02:33:05
” Falcon 9 second stage that caused a lot of press attention a few weeks ago when it reentered above Seattle and DUMPED A COUPLE OF PRESSURE TANKS ON WASHINGTON STATE," McDowell told Jones.

A pressure tank from that SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket landed LANDED ON A WASHINGTON FARM and left a 4-inch dent in the ground. Nobody was hurt in that incident, according to local authorities.

An early prototype of the space station China is building also fell back to Earth uncontrolled in 2018. It fell over the UNINHABITED South Pacific Ocean.”

^^^ Lol. It sounds like China has more control of its rocket parts compared to the reckless behavior of the US.

Habebe
Member Thu May 06 01:41:28
Starship was an utter success today.

Did China's rover make it to Mars Yet?

TheChildren
Member Thu May 06 01:53:35
wow thats all dandy and all. but chinese just send a space station, first part of it.

did starship send anythin yet.

Habebe
Member Thu May 06 02:17:06
Not really sure what the big deal about a space station is...what will it accomplish?

Starship will be the the behemoth workhorse sending people and supplies to build a moon base and then manned missions to Mars?

Has China's rover made it there yet? Didnt it launch like the same time as the US and UAE?

chuck
Member Thu May 06 09:15:13
It's a damn shame it was cloudy at Boca Chica and that the video feeds on SN15 froze up. The streams were underwhelming documentation for such a historic event.

SpaceX's current FAA clearances are for up to 30km so I suppose that's what we have to look forward to with the already stacked SN16. Next real big question mark is whethet Starship can accomplish the same maneuver once orbital velocities and heat up are involved, and then whether the design is robust enough against those stresses to be reused without refurbishment.

What a time to be alive though, when belly flopping a 12 story building, 9 meters in diameter, back to Earth JUST WORKS.

TheChildren
Member Thu May 06 10:54:36
our stuff is doing research near mars. why u so impatient. when da time comes, they will land.

show deleted posts

Paramount Member	Thu Apr 29 06:29:34 China builds its own space station expected to be operational in 2022. The International Space Station is to be retired in 2024. I guess the US won’t have a space station after that? http://apn...4d9292eb82fe11eafef6e9cd1c19b4
Habebe Member	Thu Apr 29 06:49:47 I don't know. IIRC The Artemis Lunar base was aimed for 2024, but I guess that depends on how quickly they can master Starship like they have the Falcon9/heavy.
Habebe Member	Thu Apr 29 06:50:25 Are the Russians building their own soace station too? Or isnthat a collaboration?
Nekran Member	Thu Apr 29 07:31:29 I thought the ISS mission was prolonged until 2030.
Paramount Member	Thu Apr 29 07:31:33 They are building one together with China. So I guess China will have 2 space stations.
Paramount Member	Thu Apr 29 07:49:37 Nekran According to BBC: The ISS is due to be retired after 2024, which could potentially leave Tiangong as the only space station in Earth's orbit. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56924370
Paramount Member	Thu Apr 29 07:54:27 Habebe China and Russia to build lunar space station China and Russia have announced plans to build a lunar space station. Russian space agency Roscosmos says it has signed an agreement with China's National Space Administration to develop research facilities on the surface of the moon, in orbit or both. A statement from both countries' space agencies says it will be available for use by other nations. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56342311 So China will have one space station of their own, and then they will have one together with Russia, AND they even say that the USA may get to use it. This is a BIG DEAL! "Chen Lan, an analyst who specialises in China's space programme, told AFP news agency that the project was a "big deal"."
Paramount Member	Thu Apr 29 07:56:09 "The ISS is due to be retired after 2024" Well, 2030 is after 2024. lol. So maybe you are right, the ISS may continue to be in use until 2030.
chuck Member	Thu Apr 29 08:24:44 > I guess the US won’t have a space station after that? Bruh. Space stations are irrelevant right now. As currently designed, SpaceX's Starship can sling 100 tons to LEO per launch. That's 1/4th the mass of ISS. Add to that, Starship's internal volume is equal to the ISS, so you could just park one in LEO and call it a space station if you like. That heavy lift capability is going to instantly obsolete everything that came before when it comes online. Nothing else worth watching in space right now IMO, esp not China.
chuck Member	Thu Apr 29 08:31:50 Incidentally, Starship SN15 is scheduled to launch no earlier than today so if you pay attention you might catch that one going up and coming back down in the next few hours. Lots of upgrades over previous test articles. Skipped SN12-14 because they felt like they knew everything they needed to know from the previous gen tests. Decent chance they stick the belly flop + landing maneuver for the first time this launch.
Habebe Member	Thu Apr 29 11:37:56 When it comes to reliably and CHEAPLY getting payloads to space, SpaceX seems light years ahead of everyone else. http://www...-vs-elon-musks-falcon-9-10.htm By next year china HOPES* to have costs down to $10k per kilo. Mean while Falcon9's can deliver CURRENTLY* at $2720 per kilo. I should note that 10k is still fairly cheap, and is probably better than anyone other than SpaceX, but it still isn't operable. I read recently that the Euro space Center had been working on a 10 year project for cheap space travel as a niche business.They have all but scrapped it since its not reusable Spaces already is delivering cheaper reliability than they were hoping to achieve...Ill.check for the article. Has china made a reliable.re usable rocket yet?
Paramount Member	Thu Apr 29 11:41:17 I don’t know. But they will get there one day. The US is currently ahead.
Habebe Member	Thu Apr 29 11:46:15 But really only because of a Dutch African American immigrant...Ironic.
Habebe Member	Thu Apr 29 11:47:06 Well, policy wise I have to give credit to Obama Probably the best thing he did.
jergul large member	Thu Apr 29 11:52:32 Its amusing to me that you just got a 1.9 trillion dollar stimmy bill, but think costs matter for prestige projects. At 10k per kg, how many tons of could you have put into orbit for that stimmy package?
TheChildren Member	Thu Apr 29 12:04:55 truly, GLORY!!! another glorious day. tc been playin daysgone all day and only now saw this. what a fantastic glorious day
Habebe Member	Thu Apr 29 13:16:15 "At 10k per kg, how many tons of could you have put into orbit for that stimmy package?" About 4x more than of spacex sent it . If costs don't matter why does Norway not have a space project? I'm sure you can grasp that we have spent ALOT of money over the years into this, with massive cost reductions we can do much more and accelerate the learning process. Its why SpaceX operates differently than traditional space agencies. They prefer to test it out in real world settings over theoretical testing like NASA did. $7500 is ALOT of money when a single rocket can send 64 metric tons.
chuck Member	Thu Apr 29 14:48:33 Falcon 9 is already eating the global launch market's lunch. China is second biggest launcher iirc, but they've also got a captive market. Per Musk, Starship launch costs (fuel + ops) might drop as low as $2,000,000 per Starship use. At 100 metric ton to LEO payload capacity, that would be $2000/metric ton or $2/kg. Prestige funding won't matter with that many orders of magnitude separating them and their competitors cost-wise. If the novel landing maneuver can be pulled off and they are right about stainless steel construction + belly flop orientation avoiding Shuttle-esque heat shield refurbishments, it will be a whole new game.
chuck Member	Thu Apr 29 14:49:56 *the above, but with better math $20,000/metric ton $20/kg
habebe Member	Thu Apr 29 14:55:45 For reference I was refencing Falcon heavy, which is smaller than starship.*
habebe Member	Thu Apr 29 15:11:25 In other news I seen perseverance extracted oxygen on Mars...pretty cool.
chuck Member	Thu Apr 29 15:20:45 Copy copy copy copy. http://ars...ring-of-a-starship-look-alike/
jergul large member	Thu Apr 29 15:41:58 Chuck You are arguing revolutionary design and you expect no copies if it works?
Sam Adams Member	Thu Apr 29 16:00:07 Of course china will try to copy it. Copying a spaceship aint copying a slab of steel or solar panel however. China has been trying to reverse engineer the A320 and 737 for two decades and is no where near Boeing/airbus levels of reliability, safety, and efficiency. Hard to copy something so complex.
jergul large member	Fri Apr 30 01:36:50 Any chinese planes crash upside down recently?
habebe Member	Fri Apr 30 04:38:51 Its very possible, they havnt seemed to master landing on an ACC yet.
TheChildren Member	Fri Apr 30 04:59:18 our station owns! just OWNS! it looks soooo GOOD!
Rugian Member	Fri Apr 30 06:28:59 I literally had to look up what the Chinese knockoff of the 737 actually is, that's how irrelevant China is in the airliner industry. Apparently it's a plane called a Comac C919. Maiden flight took place in 2017 and only Chinese companies have any interest in buying it. Whoop dee fucking doo jergul. Talk to us about which plane has a better safety record after Comac has been around for half a century like the 737.
TheChildren Member	Fri Apr 30 06:46:57 yea and boeing meanwhile has plane rottin in deserts becoz so many people bought them right? haha OWNED.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Apr 30 09:07:21 " jergul large member Fri Apr 30 01:36:50 Any chinese planes crash upside down recently?" Hard to crash when you dont fly.
Rugian Member	Fri Apr 30 09:09:35 Air China is pretty based though, i have to admit. "Air China's inflight magazine Wings of China faced accusations of racism when they stated "London is generally a safe place to travel, however precautions are needed when entering areas mainly populated by Indians, Pakistanis and black people." in their September 2016 issue."
Sam Adams Member	Fri Apr 30 09:13:21 China in some ways is smart.
TheChildren Member	Sat May 01 14:10:07 What a glorious achievement. Once again China amazes da world. What a glory. What a glory!
TheChildren Member	Sat May 01 14:22:30 by da way, we launched 3 rockets in 1 week. BADASS!!!! OWNED!!!
Hrothgar Member	Sat May 01 17:51:46 China vs an American private company is the space race we've been waiting for since the collapse of the soviet union?
Habebe Member	Sat May 01 18:35:25 Yeah, other than Spacex the others suck ( blue origin)
Daemon Member	Sun May 02 01:58:43 http://new...s-space-station-180416640.html A huge rocket from China's space-station launch could fall back to Earth totally uncontrolled (…)
Paramount Member	Sun May 02 02:23:24 ” "I think by current standards it's unacceptable to let it reenter uncontrolled," Jonathan McDowell, an astronomer who tracks objects orbiting Earth, told Jones. "Since 1990 nothing over 10 tons has been deliberately left in orbit to reenter uncontrolled." But it was acceptable for America during their early and mid-years of space rocketry. What happened in 1990?
Paramount Member	Sun May 02 02:33:05 ” Falcon 9 second stage that caused a lot of press attention a few weeks ago when it reentered above Seattle and DUMPED A COUPLE OF PRESSURE TANKS ON WASHINGTON STATE," McDowell told Jones. A pressure tank from that SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket landed LANDED ON A WASHINGTON FARM and left a 4-inch dent in the ground. Nobody was hurt in that incident, according to local authorities. An early prototype of the space station China is building also fell back to Earth uncontrolled in 2018. It fell over the UNINHABITED South Pacific Ocean.” ^^^ Lol. It sounds like China has more control of its rocket parts compared to the reckless behavior of the US.
Habebe Member	Thu May 06 01:41:28 Starship was an utter success today. Did China's rover make it to Mars Yet?
TheChildren Member	Thu May 06 01:53:35 wow thats all dandy and all. but chinese just send a space station, first part of it. did starship send anythin yet.
Habebe Member	Thu May 06 02:17:06 Not really sure what the big deal about a space station is...what will it accomplish? Starship will be the the behemoth workhorse sending people and supplies to build a moon base and then manned missions to Mars? Has China's rover made it there yet? Didnt it launch like the same time as the US and UAE?
chuck Member	Thu May 06 09:15:13 It's a damn shame it was cloudy at Boca Chica and that the video feeds on SN15 froze up. The streams were underwhelming documentation for such a historic event. SpaceX's current FAA clearances are for up to 30km so I suppose that's what we have to look forward to with the already stacked SN16. Next real big question mark is whethet Starship can accomplish the same maneuver once orbital velocities and heat up are involved, and then whether the design is robust enough against those stresses to be reused without refurbishment. What a time to be alive though, when belly flopping a 12 story building, 9 meters in diameter, back to Earth JUST WORKS.
TheChildren Member	Thu May 06 10:54:36 our stuff is doing research near mars. why u so impatient. when da time comes, they will land.
	show deleted posts

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