Utopia Talk - Politics - The Indian variant of the China virus

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Utopia Talk / Politics / The Indian variant of the China virus

Habebe
Member Mon Jun 14 04:37:08
So how come everyone seems kosher with the term the indian variant, but the China virus is considered racist by some?

Rugian
Member Mon Jun 14 04:41:09
Has Trump used the term "Indian variant?"

No?

Then it's not racist. Check your privilege habebe.

Seb
Member Mon Jun 14 04:54:33
Habebe:

Because the disease already had a a short name: Covid-19, or Covid so there is no reason to label it China Virus.

In contrast the variants need a way to distinguish variants (and the serial numbers are unwieldy) - and also there is a recognition that the geographical region is not a good way of doing this; hence the switch in recent months.

F.ex. Indian variant is now referred to in media briefings from official sources as Delta.

Rugian
Member Mon Jun 14 05:03:02
"Because the disease already had a a short name: Covid-19, or Covid so there is no reason to label it China Virus."

Dishonesty at its finest. Prior to Covid, the norm was often to name virus outbreaks after the region they originated in. Ebola, Zika, MERS, etc.

"China virus" should have been the name used. Its a testament to the CCP's influence over Western media and institutions that it wasn't.

Habebe
Member Mon Jun 14 05:17:17
Seb, Plenty of other short names could have been used.There was no greater need to call it the indian variant ( now delta) than yo call it the China virus.

Those shorthands relay info of where it was first discovered quickly.

Seb
Member Mon Jun 14 06:16:36
Rugian:

Firstly, I'd be interested as to why you think what you have said proves dishonesty.

It is an absolute fact that the disease had an established name (COVID-19) and the attempt to rename it (China Virus) was a top down driven political decision.

"Prior to Covid, the norm was often to name virus outbreaks after the region they originated in. Ebola, Zika, MERS, etc."

Like SARS?

The trend has been away from naming after specific country level regions for a long time.

https://www.who.int/news/item/08-05-2015-who-issues-best-practices-for-naming-new-human-infectious-diseases

See this WHO best practice guidance from 2015.

""China virus" should have been the name used."

Not according to the WHO guidance on naming conventions for novel diseases, based on lessons learned from Swine Flu and MERS, which you ironically list as a rationale for continuing with this harmful practice.

"Those shorthands relay info of where it was first discovered quickly."

Truly vital information in a pandemic </sarcasm>. Indeed, it's arguably harmful: govts have often been lax with travel bans, targeting the initial area not areas affected - e.g. "Oh, we can just ban travel to and from South Africa". Except by the time you detect in SA, it's already spread to other places and staggered implementation of travel bans mean that you have people traveling via third countries. Over-emphasis of localisation had led to saliency bias in policy making.

There are some pretty good examples the WHO cited on why location is otherwise harmful.

Covid-19 works fine and had no need to be re-branded "China virus" except to help Trump shift blame for his shit response and the inevitable tanking of the US economy. India virus tells nobody anything useful now it has spread well outside India.

Seb
Member Mon Jun 14 06:17:09
And the Kent strain is not really relevant when it is near wiped out in the UK, but prevalent in Europe and America.

Dukhat
Member Mon Jun 14 11:07:37
Cuckservatives reach extreme levels of stupid yet again.

Sam Adams
Member Mon Jun 14 13:30:42
"So how come everyone seems kosher with the term the indian variant, but the China virus is considered racist by some?"

Because people, especially journalists responsible for these opinions, are retarded.

Habebe
Member Mon Jun 14 21:49:56
"There are some pretty good examples the WHO cited on why location is otherwise harmful."

But that is missing the point. Why are the Chinese afforded such a courtesy and not say the Indians?

The same reasons that make the China virus potentially harmful (xenophobia for example) would also apply to India.

Seb
Member Tue Jun 15 02:03:19
Habebe:
I explained already. You have developed a bad habit of ignoring these.

The official name for variants had been a string of numbers. The media decided to use locations as a more easily memorable short hand, as far was the only salient feature to use as a descriptor. As a result the WHO and govts have adopted Greek alphabet based official names for variants of concern.

Habebe
Member Tue Jun 15 11:34:05
"The media decided to use locations as a more easily memorable short hand, as far was the only salient feature to use as a descriptor. "

And they literally could have used any other shorthand, we make up hurricane names all the time. The Tyrnnosaurus variant.

Don't you think that it was prejudice of them to call it the Indian variant?

Habebe
Member Tue Jun 15 11:52:33
"The media decided to use locations as a more easily memorable short hand, as far was the only salient feature to use as a descriptor. "

And they literally could have used any other shorthand, we make up hurricane names all the time. The Tyrnnosaurus variant.

Don't you think that it was prejudice of them to call it the Indian variant?

Habebe
Member Tue Jun 15 11:57:18
"The media decided to use locations as a more easily memorable short hand, as far was the only salient feature to use as a descriptor."

And is this ornis it not as damaging and xenophobic as the term China virus?

It either is or isn't damaging and xenophobic to name a disease or its variant after its nation/region of origin or primary infected nation/region.

It doesn't suddenly become xenophobic just because the WHO offers a new name at random.

It either is or isnt.

INDIA RULZ USA SUCKS
Member Tue Jun 15 12:39:09
"So how come everyone seems kosher with the term the indian variant"

habebe is a retard:

http://www...ariant-coronavirus-2021-05-21/

25 days ago

India asks social media firms to remove reference to 'Indian variant' of coronavirus

Habebe
Member Tue Jun 15 12:47:10
Umm, your literally making my point.

Habebe
Member Tue Jun 15 12:54:38
There was such a fuss about the term "Gyna virus".

Why did many of the same media outlets that reported how it was racist and or xenophobic to call it the China virus, felt it was ok to call it the Indian variant?

Seb
Member Tue Jun 15 14:57:06
Habebe:

"And they literally could have used any other shorthand, we make up hurricane names all the time. The Tyrnnosaurus variant."

And nobody would have understood what they meant, and every media outfit would have come up with their own name.

It needs a central body to agree names (as with Hurricanes) - hence the WHO has started to use designations like Delta as official names for the variants of concern alongside their scientific serial numbers being used.

"Don't you think that it was prejudice of them to call it the Indian variant?"

No, because every variant has had a geographic name - so I don't think it was prejudice in the way that seeking to rebrand COVID "China flu" or whatever was. It is, however, *prejudicial*.

"And is this ornis it not as damaging and xenophobic as the term China virus?"

It is as damaging yes, hence the belated realisation by the WHO and others that people are not going to refer to B.1.173.24 or whatever and that they had better take responsibility for giving variants of concern a plain language name.

Is it as damaging as calling Covid China flu? Yes.

Morally, is the media having used phrases like "Indian strain" in the absence of anything else to call it the same as trying to make "china flu" etc. be a thing AFTER the widespread term was Covid 19, Covid etc. Absolutely not. the latter was being deliberately encouraged precisely because it would prejudice the world against China. The latter is an example of outright propaganda.

Habebe
Member Tue Jun 15 18:14:17
"And nobody would have understood what they meant, and every media outfit would have come up with their own name."

How does Delta clarify anything? Why B1.617 2? Not.catchy enough?

"It is as damaging yes, hence the belated realisation by the WHO"

Yeah like 7 months.

Your gripe seems to be the intent of the users of the term. B1.617 2 isnt as catchy, true.

But then again covid 19 isnt as catchy as Kung flu.

It also seems people walk on egg shells more with China than India because China has a habit of retaliatory actions.

Seb
Member Tue Jun 15 18:41:36
Habebe:

Which one of these is the one we need to worry about?

B.1.617.2 or B.1.1.7?

Those are very difficult to remember from article to article.

"Your gripe seems to be the intent of the users of the term"

Gosh you seem quite slow today.

1. It's agreed that it is demonstrably harmful to link a disease to a people, nation or location, and that should be avoided. One of those harms is that it fuels racism: people that come from that location end up being discriminated on the basis that somehow that are culpable for spreading the disease.

2. Given that it is demonstrably harmful to do this, *deliberately* doing so with the obvious intent to create prejudice against the nation you seek to link to the disease is racist. It's also unethical, immoral, and on the "What would Goebbels do?" Spectrum.

This isn't very hard. Cf. "Killing people is bad, but you can do it without malice. Intentionally killing people is super bad"

"covid 19 isnt as catchy as Kung flu"
Yeah, which is why absolutely everyone gets confused between Covid 19, SARS and Flu. All the time. And why everyone use the Dewey decimal type numbers. I mean, which idiot writes web addresses with domains into their navigation bar instead of the easy to remember IP address natively. DNS servers are just for catchy branding, but IP addresses are just as easy to remember. /Sarcasm

Does it take a lot of effort to play this dumb to defend Trump?

Habebe
Member Tue Jun 15 19:55:25
Seb, Slow of mind, quick to anger today?

". It's agreed that it is demonstrably harmful to link a disease to a people, nation or location"

The writers intent doesn't remove such harms.

Habebe
Member Tue Jun 15 20:23:44
I would also point out that China is not a race. Hong Kong and Taiwan are ethnically the same as most ethnic Han Chinese.

So I wouldn't call their intent racist.

Habebe
Member Tue Jun 15 20:27:30
#Serica Delenda Est!

Seb
Member Wed Jun 16 02:49:58
Habebe:

I don't believe I suggested it was less harmful.

But you seem to be struggling with why the criticism of Dear Leader was so much stronger.

"You can't be racist to a nationality by definition" is both factually incorrect and so juvenile as to be beneath comment.

Nevertheless as we are here, racisl prejudices is defined technically as prejudice or hostility towards a person's race, colour, language, nationality, or national or ethnic origin.
http://www...g=AOvVaw3V8nSwqwc0JHS6IqfBWgkk

Nimatzo
iChihuaha Wed Jun 16 05:08:07
The naming convention of Virus is the question of our generation. Feels good to be alive in such interesting times.

Habebe
Member Wed Jun 16 05:08:17
"But you seem to be struggling with why the criticism of Dear Leader was so much stronger."

No, I clearly understand "orange man bad".

"
"You can't be racist to a nationality by definition" is both factually incorrect and so juvenile as to be beneath comment."

Considering context it was relevant.If your going back to Trump, you would be hard pressed to find a leader more supportive of HK or Taiwan.He just didn't like the CCP.

But of course it's a go to for you to smear someone with a political disagreement as "racist" as an attempt to be dismissive.

Also given the references I used, HK is the same nation.Taiwan, well that's a whole bag of worms on what country it is or isn't.

And your the one trying to get oddly specific by using UN convention wording. And then fail at both examples used, if I had said Japanese perhaps you would have some leeway, even though its 1969 convention terminology.

Seb
Member Wed Jun 16 16:46:26
"No, I clearly understand "orange man bad"."
Exactly - struggling and unable to compute the difference between deliberate attempt to stigmatize a nation Vs unintentionally doing so.

Seb
Member Wed Jun 16 16:47:25
Nobody thinks discriminating against people on your basis of nationality isn't a form of racism.

Habebe
Member Wed Jun 16 19:07:21
Sen thinks honhkongers are racist towards mainlanders....

Habebe
Member Wed Jun 16 19:13:13
I guess US liberals are just racist towards Southerners and Texans etc.

It makes sense now.If someone dislikes or disagrees with something its because of racism.Theyre call just racists, figure out the details later.

Seb dislikes America and me because he is racist.

Perhaps you should get some some sensitivity training so your not such racist anymore.

Seb
Member Thu Jun 17 06:23:13
Habebe:

"Sen thinks honhkongers are racist towards mainlanders...."

They probably are - they certainly used to be during British rule - of course now if you try and research it on the internet you will find oodles of Chinee propaganda.

"I guess US liberals are just racist towards Southerners and Texans etc."
Are Texans a race, language, nation, or ethnicity?

Seb
Member Thu Jun 17 06:25:40
Also, who says I don't like America?

You might also want to understand what "on the basis of" means. You can't just decry any criticism as being racist if it is directed at someone of a particular group if the criticism is specific to that person and their specific actions and not on the basis of the features described above.

Are we going to keep going with this 8th grade level semantics?

Habebe
Member Thu Jun 17 07:20:17
But you clearly do regularly just call shit racism/racist that is not. You racialise everything.

What's the saying about if your only tool is a hammer, all you see is nails.

Plenty of people are anti China and not racist against Chinese. In my personal experience almost exclusively* anti China actually means anti CCP.Atleast in the states, we love Taiwan more than Germans love Russian gas (which is slightly less than Hasslehoff)

Strong support for HK as well.

There is far less cross over than say the Israel situation. While plenty of hatred goes towards Israeli policies a large chunk just seems to be anti Jewish (IE Paramount)

From an American perspective, Ive always found it rather Ironic how many Euros will be salty about the US being cool with autocratic regimes, but do nothing but will take a bullet for China and defend it, but somehow the Shah, Pinochet and the Saudis should be demonized, but not China.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha Thu Jun 17 08:55:17
Ive always found it rather Ironic how many Americans will be salty about the EU being cool with China, but will take a bullet for Saudi Arabia and defend it. Somehow China should be demonized, but Pinochet and the Saudis, they are cool.

Oh that's right, I just literally flipped the script >:)

Rugian
Member Thu Jun 17 09:27:56
The Saudis and Pinochet never represented a serious threat to Western Civilization itself.

Meanwhile, China represents a serious military threat to multiple democratic countries. Its cultural influence is even more insiduous; Chinese governance models are currently in vogue with the ruling classes in the West, and America is literally going through a Chinese-style Cultural Revolution (just without the body count...for now at least) at the moment.

Saudi Arabia is led by a trash regime and criticism of our relationship with them is warranted...but at the end of the day, their fuckery doesnt matter outside of the ME. Chinese fuckery, otoh, extends the world over.

Habebe
Member Thu Jun 17 09:45:43
Rugian hit the nail on the head, except that "trash regime" comment, but anyway.

Who cares about some small regional powers being autocratic.

The only draw I really see with China for Euros is they are just happy that someone can almost stand up to the US/Anglosphere (US/CA/AUS/NZ/UK.

It cant just be economic, the EU should be able to throw a little weight around that way.

But post WW2 they have even collectively bent the knee to arrogant Americans, and they resent that.

But my issue is their regards for autocratic leadership goes put the window for really nothing in return, now they just serve two empires.

Also, maybe its just perception, but they seem to look down on India, never got that. India os clearly on the rise while China is in decline.plus they make top notch immigrants.

Paramount
Member Thu Jun 17 09:56:53
"China represents a serious military threat to multiple democratic countries"

No they don't. They have no ambition to invade democratic countries in the West. They also have no history of invading, bombing, destablizing countries or instigating coup d'etat in various countries like the US has.

China will defend their own country of course. And that is why the US is so angry now. The US wants to bully China like they bully other countries. The US wants to be dominant. It is basically the US who wants to conquer China and get them to line up under American imperialist leadership. But the US sense that China does not want to be a vassal state. That is why the US is crying like a baby and making up lies about China. Very dishonest.

Rugian
Member Thu Jun 17 10:08:58
Literally 48 hours ago:

http://mob...t%2F2106072053000%2Fframe.html

Habebe
Member Thu Jun 17 10:37:28
"They also have no history of invading, bombing, destablizing countries or instigating coup d'etat in various countries like the US has."

The Dalai Lama begs to differ....literally they invaded the most peaceful people on earth.

Habebe
Member Thu Jun 17 10:39:19
"The US wants to bully China like they bully other countries"

And there it is, euros see a champion to stand up against the US because they feel inadequate.This is exactly what I was saying.

show deleted posts

Habebe Member	Mon Jun 14 04:37:08 So how come everyone seems kosher with the term the indian variant, but the China virus is considered racist by some?
Rugian Member	Mon Jun 14 04:41:09 Has Trump used the term "Indian variant?" No? Then it's not racist. Check your privilege habebe.
Seb Member	Mon Jun 14 04:54:33 Habebe: Because the disease already had a a short name: Covid-19, or Covid so there is no reason to label it China Virus. In contrast the variants need a way to distinguish variants (and the serial numbers are unwieldy) - and also there is a recognition that the geographical region is not a good way of doing this; hence the switch in recent months. F.ex. Indian variant is now referred to in media briefings from official sources as Delta.
Rugian Member	Mon Jun 14 05:03:02 "Because the disease already had a a short name: Covid-19, or Covid so there is no reason to label it China Virus." Dishonesty at its finest. Prior to Covid, the norm was often to name virus outbreaks after the region they originated in. Ebola, Zika, MERS, etc. "China virus" should have been the name used. Its a testament to the CCP's influence over Western media and institutions that it wasn't.
Habebe Member	Mon Jun 14 05:17:17 Seb, Plenty of other short names could have been used.There was no greater need to call it the indian variant ( now delta) than yo call it the China virus. Those shorthands relay info of where it was first discovered quickly.
Seb Member	Mon Jun 14 06:16:36 Rugian: Firstly, I'd be interested as to why you think what you have said proves dishonesty. It is an absolute fact that the disease had an established name (COVID-19) and the attempt to rename it (China Virus) was a top down driven political decision. "Prior to Covid, the norm was often to name virus outbreaks after the region they originated in. Ebola, Zika, MERS, etc." Like SARS? The trend has been away from naming after specific country level regions for a long time. https://www.who.int/news/item/08-05-2015-who-issues-best-practices-for-naming-new-human-infectious-diseases See this WHO best practice guidance from 2015. ""China virus" should have been the name used." Not according to the WHO guidance on naming conventions for novel diseases, based on lessons learned from Swine Flu and MERS, which you ironically list as a rationale for continuing with this harmful practice. "Those shorthands relay info of where it was first discovered quickly." Truly vital information in a pandemic </sarcasm>. Indeed, it's arguably harmful: govts have often been lax with travel bans, targeting the initial area not areas affected - e.g. "Oh, we can just ban travel to and from South Africa". Except by the time you detect in SA, it's already spread to other places and staggered implementation of travel bans mean that you have people traveling via third countries. Over-emphasis of localisation had led to saliency bias in policy making. There are some pretty good examples the WHO cited on why location is otherwise harmful. Covid-19 works fine and had no need to be re-branded "China virus" except to help Trump shift blame for his shit response and the inevitable tanking of the US economy. India virus tells nobody anything useful now it has spread well outside India.
Seb Member	Mon Jun 14 06:17:09 And the Kent strain is not really relevant when it is near wiped out in the UK, but prevalent in Europe and America.
Dukhat Member	Mon Jun 14 11:07:37 Cuckservatives reach extreme levels of stupid yet again.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jun 14 13:30:42 "So how come everyone seems kosher with the term the indian variant, but the China virus is considered racist by some?" Because people, especially journalists responsible for these opinions, are retarded.
Habebe Member	Mon Jun 14 21:49:56 "There are some pretty good examples the WHO cited on why location is otherwise harmful." But that is missing the point. Why are the Chinese afforded such a courtesy and not say the Indians? The same reasons that make the China virus potentially harmful (xenophobia for example) would also apply to India.
Seb Member	Tue Jun 15 02:03:19 Habebe: I explained already. You have developed a bad habit of ignoring these. The official name for variants had been a string of numbers. The media decided to use locations as a more easily memorable short hand, as far was the only salient feature to use as a descriptor. As a result the WHO and govts have adopted Greek alphabet based official names for variants of concern.
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 15 11:34:05 "The media decided to use locations as a more easily memorable short hand, as far was the only salient feature to use as a descriptor. " And they literally could have used any other shorthand, we make up hurricane names all the time. The Tyrnnosaurus variant. Don't you think that it was prejudice of them to call it the Indian variant?
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 15 11:52:33 "The media decided to use locations as a more easily memorable short hand, as far was the only salient feature to use as a descriptor. " And they literally could have used any other shorthand, we make up hurricane names all the time. The Tyrnnosaurus variant. Don't you think that it was prejudice of them to call it the Indian variant?
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 15 11:57:18 "The media decided to use locations as a more easily memorable short hand, as far was the only salient feature to use as a descriptor." And is this ornis it not as damaging and xenophobic as the term China virus? It either is or isn't damaging and xenophobic to name a disease or its variant after its nation/region of origin or primary infected nation/region. It doesn't suddenly become xenophobic just because the WHO offers a new name at random. It either is or isnt.
INDIA RULZ USA SUCKS Member	Tue Jun 15 12:39:09 "So how come everyone seems kosher with the term the indian variant" habebe is a retard: http://www...ariant-coronavirus-2021-05-21/ 25 days ago India asks social media firms to remove reference to 'Indian variant' of coronavirus
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 15 12:47:10 Umm, your literally making my point.
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 15 12:54:38 There was such a fuss about the term "Gyna virus". Why did many of the same media outlets that reported how it was racist and or xenophobic to call it the China virus, felt it was ok to call it the Indian variant?
Seb Member	Tue Jun 15 14:57:06 Habebe: "And they literally could have used any other shorthand, we make up hurricane names all the time. The Tyrnnosaurus variant." And nobody would have understood what they meant, and every media outfit would have come up with their own name. It needs a central body to agree names (as with Hurricanes) - hence the WHO has started to use designations like Delta as official names for the variants of concern alongside their scientific serial numbers being used. "Don't you think that it was prejudice of them to call it the Indian variant?" No, because every variant has had a geographic name - so I don't think it was prejudice in the way that seeking to rebrand COVID "China flu" or whatever was. It is, however, prejudicial. "And is this ornis it not as damaging and xenophobic as the term China virus?" It is as damaging yes, hence the belated realisation by the WHO and others that people are not going to refer to B.1.173.24 or whatever and that they had better take responsibility for giving variants of concern a plain language name. Is it as damaging as calling Covid China flu? Yes. Morally, is the media having used phrases like "Indian strain" in the absence of anything else to call it the same as trying to make "china flu" etc. be a thing AFTER the widespread term was Covid 19, Covid etc. Absolutely not. the latter was being deliberately encouraged precisely because it would prejudice the world against China. The latter is an example of outright propaganda.
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 15 18:14:17 "And nobody would have understood what they meant, and every media outfit would have come up with their own name." How does Delta clarify anything? Why B1.617 2? Not.catchy enough? "It is as damaging yes, hence the belated realisation by the WHO" Yeah like 7 months. Your gripe seems to be the intent of the users of the term. B1.617 2 isnt as catchy, true. But then again covid 19 isnt as catchy as Kung flu. It also seems people walk on egg shells more with China than India because China has a habit of retaliatory actions.
Seb Member	Tue Jun 15 18:41:36 Habebe: Which one of these is the one we need to worry about? B.1.617.2 or B.1.1.7? Those are very difficult to remember from article to article. "Your gripe seems to be the intent of the users of the term" Gosh you seem quite slow today. 1. It's agreed that it is demonstrably harmful to link a disease to a people, nation or location, and that should be avoided. One of those harms is that it fuels racism: people that come from that location end up being discriminated on the basis that somehow that are culpable for spreading the disease. 2. Given that it is demonstrably harmful to do this, deliberately doing so with the obvious intent to create prejudice against the nation you seek to link to the disease is racist. It's also unethical, immoral, and on the "What would Goebbels do?" Spectrum. This isn't very hard. Cf. "Killing people is bad, but you can do it without malice. Intentionally killing people is super bad" "covid 19 isnt as catchy as Kung flu" Yeah, which is why absolutely everyone gets confused between Covid 19, SARS and Flu. All the time. And why everyone use the Dewey decimal type numbers. I mean, which idiot writes web addresses with domains into their navigation bar instead of the easy to remember IP address natively. DNS servers are just for catchy branding, but IP addresses are just as easy to remember. /Sarcasm Does it take a lot of effort to play this dumb to defend Trump?
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 15 19:55:25 Seb, Slow of mind, quick to anger today? ". It's agreed that it is demonstrably harmful to link a disease to a people, nation or location" The writers intent doesn't remove such harms.
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 15 20:23:44 I would also point out that China is not a race. Hong Kong and Taiwan are ethnically the same as most ethnic Han Chinese. So I wouldn't call their intent racist.
Habebe Member	Tue Jun 15 20:27:30 #Serica Delenda Est!
Seb Member	Wed Jun 16 02:49:58 Habebe: I don't believe I suggested it was less harmful. But you seem to be struggling with why the criticism of Dear Leader was so much stronger. "You can't be racist to a nationality by definition" is both factually incorrect and so juvenile as to be beneath comment. Nevertheless as we are here, racisl prejudices is defined technically as prejudice or hostility towards a person's race, colour, language, nationality, or national or ethnic origin. http://www...g=AOvVaw3V8nSwqwc0JHS6IqfBWgkk
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Jun 16 05:08:07 The naming convention of Virus is the question of our generation. Feels good to be alive in such interesting times.
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 16 05:08:17 "But you seem to be struggling with why the criticism of Dear Leader was so much stronger." No, I clearly understand "orange man bad". " "You can't be racist to a nationality by definition" is both factually incorrect and so juvenile as to be beneath comment." Considering context it was relevant.If your going back to Trump, you would be hard pressed to find a leader more supportive of HK or Taiwan.He just didn't like the CCP. But of course it's a go to for you to smear someone with a political disagreement as "racist" as an attempt to be dismissive. Also given the references I used, HK is the same nation.Taiwan, well that's a whole bag of worms on what country it is or isn't. And your the one trying to get oddly specific by using UN convention wording. And then fail at both examples used, if I had said Japanese perhaps you would have some leeway, even though its 1969 convention terminology.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 16 16:46:26 "No, I clearly understand "orange man bad"." Exactly - struggling and unable to compute the difference between deliberate attempt to stigmatize a nation Vs unintentionally doing so.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 16 16:47:25 Nobody thinks discriminating against people on your basis of nationality isn't a form of racism.
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 16 19:07:21 Sen thinks honhkongers are racist towards mainlanders....
Habebe Member	Wed Jun 16 19:13:13 I guess US liberals are just racist towards Southerners and Texans etc. It makes sense now.If someone dislikes or disagrees with something its because of racism.Theyre call just racists, figure out the details later. Seb dislikes America and me because he is racist. Perhaps you should get some some sensitivity training so your not such racist anymore.
Seb Member	Thu Jun 17 06:23:13 Habebe: "Sen thinks honhkongers are racist towards mainlanders...." They probably are - they certainly used to be during British rule - of course now if you try and research it on the internet you will find oodles of Chinee propaganda. "I guess US liberals are just racist towards Southerners and Texans etc." Are Texans a race, language, nation, or ethnicity?
Seb Member	Thu Jun 17 06:25:40 Also, who says I don't like America? You might also want to understand what "on the basis of" means. You can't just decry any criticism as being racist if it is directed at someone of a particular group if the criticism is specific to that person and their specific actions and not on the basis of the features described above. Are we going to keep going with this 8th grade level semantics?
Habebe Member	Thu Jun 17 07:20:17 But you clearly do regularly just call shit racism/racist that is not. You racialise everything. What's the saying about if your only tool is a hammer, all you see is nails. Plenty of people are anti China and not racist against Chinese. In my personal experience almost exclusively* anti China actually means anti CCP.Atleast in the states, we love Taiwan more than Germans love Russian gas (which is slightly less than Hasslehoff) Strong support for HK as well. There is far less cross over than say the Israel situation. While plenty of hatred goes towards Israeli policies a large chunk just seems to be anti Jewish (IE Paramount) From an American perspective, Ive always found it rather Ironic how many Euros will be salty about the US being cool with autocratic regimes, but do nothing but will take a bullet for China and defend it, but somehow the Shah, Pinochet and the Saudis should be demonized, but not China.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Jun 17 08:55:17 Ive always found it rather Ironic how many Americans will be salty about the EU being cool with China, but will take a bullet for Saudi Arabia and defend it. Somehow China should be demonized, but Pinochet and the Saudis, they are cool. Oh that's right, I just literally flipped the script >:)
Rugian Member	Thu Jun 17 09:27:56 The Saudis and Pinochet never represented a serious threat to Western Civilization itself. Meanwhile, China represents a serious military threat to multiple democratic countries. Its cultural influence is even more insiduous; Chinese governance models are currently in vogue with the ruling classes in the West, and America is literally going through a Chinese-style Cultural Revolution (just without the body count...for now at least) at the moment. Saudi Arabia is led by a trash regime and criticism of our relationship with them is warranted...but at the end of the day, their fuckery doesnt matter outside of the ME. Chinese fuckery, otoh, extends the world over.
Habebe Member	Thu Jun 17 09:45:43 Rugian hit the nail on the head, except that "trash regime" comment, but anyway. Who cares about some small regional powers being autocratic. The only draw I really see with China for Euros is they are just happy that someone can almost stand up to the US/Anglosphere (US/CA/AUS/NZ/UK. It cant just be economic, the EU should be able to throw a little weight around that way. But post WW2 they have even collectively bent the knee to arrogant Americans, and they resent that. But my issue is their regards for autocratic leadership goes put the window for really nothing in return, now they just serve two empires. Also, maybe its just perception, but they seem to look down on India, never got that. India os clearly on the rise while China is in decline.plus they make top notch immigrants.
Paramount Member	Thu Jun 17 09:56:53 "China represents a serious military threat to multiple democratic countries" No they don't. They have no ambition to invade democratic countries in the West. They also have no history of invading, bombing, destablizing countries or instigating coup d'etat in various countries like the US has. China will defend their own country of course. And that is why the US is so angry now. The US wants to bully China like they bully other countries. The US wants to be dominant. It is basically the US who wants to conquer China and get them to line up under American imperialist leadership. But the US sense that China does not want to be a vassal state. That is why the US is crying like a baby and making up lies about China. Very dishonest.
Rugian Member	Thu Jun 17 10:08:58 Literally 48 hours ago: http://mob...t%2F2106072053000%2Fframe.html
Habebe Member	Thu Jun 17 10:37:28 "They also have no history of invading, bombing, destablizing countries or instigating coup d'etat in various countries like the US has." The Dalai Lama begs to differ....literally they invaded the most peaceful people on earth.
Habebe Member	Thu Jun 17 10:39:19 "The US wants to bully China like they bully other countries" And there it is, euros see a champion to stand up against the US because they feel inadequate.This is exactly what I was saying.
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