Utopia Talk / Politics / Seb arrested

Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 15 09:43:38 It appears a leftist activist has murdered a british conservative politician. In church.
murder Member	Fri Oct 15 10:01:52 A fitting punishment for going to church.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 15 10:06:07 I think the church was just a community hall for some community meeting.
Paramount Member	Fri Oct 15 10:08:09 "A fitting punishment for going to church." lol
murder Member	Fri Oct 15 11:09:59 Yeah I think he was just meeting constituents. There are loons everywhere.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Oct 15 17:40:59 One of sebs muslim immigrants. Rofl. Watch the bbc try to hide this now.
kargen Member	Fri Oct 15 18:02:41 Damn an awful lot of us are going to jail lately.
Habebe Member	Fri Oct 15 18:29:04 And it hasn't been me either!
Y2A Member	Fri Oct 15 19:01:52 can that post Archivist look into the archives and see if sam posted on this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Jo_Cox
Y2A Member	Fri Oct 15 19:02:01 *poster
Rugian Member	Sat Oct 16 07:42:16 The British left milked Jo Cox for everything it was worth. It's the right's turn now baby.
Seb Member	Sat Oct 16 11:05:05 Jo Cox gets murdered - everyone sensible agrees that preaching hatred and calling your political enemies traitors ISA bad idea. Right wing mainstream media and activists spend the next four years calling everyone (including conservatives that are insufficiently extreme) traitors and accuse them of undermining 'the will of the people'. So yes, let's see what the right to here - I'm going to guess (as per thread title) - use the issue to whip up hatred of their political enemies.
Habebe Member	Sat Oct 16 11:14:08 Pinko bastards.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 16 13:30:07 "Right wing mainstream media and activists spend the next four years " Lets not pretend the left isnt also doing the exact same thing.
Habebe Member	Sat Oct 16 13:50:21 The left? Abusing a tragedy? Never!
Seb Member	Sat Oct 16 16:14:27 Find me the newspaper front pages with photos of judges calling them the enemies of the people; and appeals for the government to crush the traitors.
Seb Member	Sat Oct 16 16:18:31 Pretty much what you do every time there is a tragedy (assuming it has the right perpetrator) Sam though isn't it? Use it to try and tarnish an entire group, and bash anyone who doesn't support your hatred of them.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Oct 16 20:23:47 "Use it to try and tarnish an entire group" The evidence is what is. I cannot help but follow the numbers. Theres a big difference between accepting that statistics paint certain groups in a bad light and being a right or left wing extremist that rages without logic or reason.
Habebe Member	Sat Oct 16 20:50:19 So we're all in agreement, this one gets blamed on far left extremists and colored supremacists, right?
Seb Member	Sun Oct 17 04:23:27 "cannot help but follow the numbers" The numbers make you selectively publish news reports do they? Habebe: Nope. Unless you are willing to accept collective responsibility for the murder of Jo Cox, and also every innocent person killed directly or indirectly by US foreign policy in the middle East (that's Al Qaeda's casus belli by the way), then you don't get to assign collective responsibility to others. If you do want to persist with this idea of assigning some kind of responsibility to entire groups, then you are legitimising terrorism and hate crimes which are driven off of that logic. That's the point. That's always been the point.
Pillz Member	Sun Oct 17 06:08:56 The point has always been that you can't expect savages to co exist with mankind
Seb Member	Sun Oct 17 08:23:45 We civilised people suffer you to exist pillz.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Oct 17 10:39:34 "The numbers make you selectively publish news reports do they? " Selectively? Lol "to entire groups" Wrong.
Pillz Member	Sun Oct 17 20:01:29 Civilization requires some semblance of intelligence Seb. Maybe speak to the topic when you accept that men and women are distinct biological entities.
Habebe Member	Sun Oct 17 20:59:01 Seb, It was satirical. About the people who beleive "white supremacy is the greatest threat" and watch msnbc of "alt right" fear mongering.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 18 03:06:52 Pillz: Asside from perhaps some conjoined twins and chimeras, We are all distinct biological entities. I'm not sure that term means what you think it means. Habebe: In the US it all certainly is. It's the weakness in society that is generating polarisation that is eroding your ability to act as a unified polity.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 18 07:01:29 I want to play the people. Why are we constantly skirting the issue and blaming "the process", "the system", "childhood" "parents" etc. No mother fucker you're retarded! That is the problem. We need to start being honest with "the people" and "the viewers". Dear constituency a lot of you are fucking stupid and your stupidity follows the power law when you group together. And that is why we can't have nice things. Thank you.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 18 07:27:43 play = blame
Habebe Member	Mon Oct 18 08:04:32 Seb, By no rational measurement is WS even a major threat in the US. If I'm wrong please show me why it is?
Seb Member	Mon Oct 18 08:22:18 Habebe: FBI and "the numbers" have been saying so for some time. Trump admin deprioritised funding DHS investigations of of http://www...domestic-terrorism%3f_amp=true See also http://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/08/post-911-domestic-terror "The FBI director, Christopher Wray, told Congress that the 6 January insurrection wasn’t an isolated event and “the problem of domestic terrorism has been metastasizing across the country for a number of years”. Wray added that white supremacists comprise “the biggest chunk of our domestic terrorism portfolio overall” and “have been responsible for the most lethal attacks over the last decade”.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 18 08:25:43 The ideology is deeply entrenched and even setting aside violent terrorist activity and coup attempts; the fundamentals inability to accept minorities as equal Americans - to the point you have habituated yourselves to vote rigging activities - shows how dangerous your inability to work through the issue is to your polity. It erodes the social contract and eventually you will become an ungovernable mess unable to focus on real priorities and instead consumed by tokenistic tribal shibboleths. (This may already have happened).
Habebe Member	Mon Oct 18 08:49:28 Yes they have been saying it...but again, you mentioned numbers. What stats/numbers show that the US greatest threat is WS? Its not deaths which was like 1.3 people a year it something ridiculous. The FBI is a political beast, it looks good in the papers to "takedown the Nazis" But 15 years ago it was Muslims. Same thing , they tend to find poor, marginalized people that fit a description and coerce them into a supposed "terror plot" entirely. Look at the governor whitmer plot, hardly newsworthy afternoon was shown to be a sham, the vast majority of the conspirators were.FBI agents who also funded and provided transportation, initiated the meetings etc. Swimming pools are.a.greater threat to us than WS.
Habebe Member	Mon Oct 18 09:13:32 http://www...ite-supremacist-extremists-us/
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 18 10:04:21 Something can be said about, how much support Jihadists have in the global muslim community, which even if a minority is significantly larger than the support WS has. The same applies to leftist and in both these cases, people who condemn often condem it half heartedly, with a but clause: I don’t agree with the method, but… that provides cover. WS has been rejected and rebuked by white majority societies, the lunatics on the left and in the Islam have not. That is a factor.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Oct 18 10:41:23 Keep in mind white people have about 20 times the population of muslims in our countries. Even if muslims killed only the same number as white people in terror attacks(they kill more in reality), then they would still be 20 times more dangerous on a per capita basis.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 18 10:53:37 Gee Habebe, if repeated heads of your domestic counter terrorist agency keep saying it, to I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that's sufficient evidence that is a threat. That and the spring of multiple legislatures in the States by armed right-wing paramilitary groups. Nim: "which even if a minority is significantly larger than the support WS has" So, all those times we find groups of nel Nazis in police forces etc - do you think they are intentionally infiltrating them? Or perhaps support is broader than you think and the issue is really that we are very good at discounting support for right wing violence and overestimating support for Muslim extremists?
Seb Member	Mon Oct 18 11:00:38 Sam: "then they would still be 20 times more dangerous on a per capita basis." On that basis Timothy McVeigh is more dangerous than the 9/11 attackers (168/1 Vs 2977/19 = 157)
Pillz Member	Mon Oct 18 11:46:38 White people are just better at everything
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 18 11:48:25 Seb What happens when it is found out that police are neo nazis? They lose their jobs. Meanwhile employees of Swedish public service sit with pictures of Mao in their office and people don’t even raise an eye brow. We can look at pew polls from Muslims countries to observse what I am talking about. My point is, there is a broader sentiment that shelters extremists on the left and among Muslims, part tribal, but more importantly based on the idea that they have a real grievance and that makes less problematic. The ends justify the means in micro doses.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 18 11:52:48 I am not discounting that I may be biased in as far as the information I get, I have previously said that we shouldn’t drive people with undesirable opinions under ground for such reasons, but I don’t have any reasons to think that I have skewed view on the prevelance of extremism. World war 2 was a watershed moment, the lunatics on the right had to be vanquished, physically and pummeled ideologically.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 18 11:58:58 I just do not see the ”background” support from WS as I do with the other. If it is there, it is not taking place in the open, like it is with the left and Muslims, precisely because it has been made unacceptable, beyond the pale to associate with nazis and fascist.
Habebe Member	Mon Oct 18 12:41:35 Seb, How about a potus? Again, you fail to show any real evidence. This is not the first time we have had this question posed. Every time I get the answer "A government guy said so " But no real evidence.I beleive Trump said antifa was a bigger threat.He wvwn wore a suit ns spoke at a podium. In 1960, yeah WS posed a threat. I live in the deep South and much like Nimatzo has observed, there isn't much support putside a handfull of wackos. You said you have numbers, you lied the sole threat of WS comes from someone who's job depends on there being one. The FBI has a long history of basically finding pasties and pushing them into ALMOST committing terror. Literally they found homeless people living in their moms basement and talked them into things and even supplied the funding/equipment and encouragement.Its well documented.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 18 14:20:07 Nim: "What happens when it is found out that police are neo nazis? They lose their jobs." That's not the point - I think you are vastly underestimating the level of support for white supremacy. They don't magically change their minds after being fired. And I don't think police are necessarily likely to be vastly more likely to support white supremacy etc. than the general population at large (though arguably such people might be more drawn to roles that give them authority over others, there must be plenty that quietly pursue more lucrative work or fail to get into policy, or just aren't that interested in being a policeman). "Meanwhile employees of Swedish public service sit with pictures of Mao in their office " Firstly, do they really? And secondly I don't think being actively a member of a far right group is the same as having a picture of Mao. "We can look at pew polls from Muslims countries to observse what I am talking about." Yes, I remember the methodologically flawed and somewhat ambiguous Pugh survey results etc. Further we have the "shy right winger" effect that means that similar polls conducted in the west are unlikely to yield the same kinds of results. But if we started to ask questions similar to the pugh ones "Is it right to spread western civilisation/Christianity" and then interpret that as being support for imperialism (by way of an analogy to the over-interpretation of some of the pugh survey questions), you would get similar results. ". If it is there, it is not taking place in the open, like it is with the left and Muslims" Really? Really?? https://youtu.be/ZN7vm9mIPBs They are literally holding a torch lit parade fully of nazi emblems, shouting "Jews will not replace us".
Seb Member	Mon Oct 18 14:26:56 Habebe: "Again, you fail to show any real evidence. This is not the first time we have had this question posed." ' No, it's not, and a while ago I posted the figures of the number of right wing attacks vs number of muslim terrorist incidents. The data is there, your own counter terrorist organisation and it's leaders have been saying this for nigh on a decade. Asserting that successive heads of the FBI are not a valid source because you believe they are lying doesn't make me a lier by citing them. The argument they must be lying because "their job depends on there being white supremacitst terrorists" is absurd. After all, they got plenty of money - more money in fact - when the threat was muslim terrorists, and nobody is going to abolish the FBI if there are not white supremacists; and the fact you have found an absurd motive for multiple FBI chiefs to lie about this isn't proof that they are in fact lying. http://www.../2021/domestic-terrorism-data/ The thing is you aren't ever going to accept anything as evidence because you don't want to believe it.
Seb Member	Mon Oct 18 14:28:38 Mad conspiratorial arguments "we can't trust X profession to be honest about their profession because they have a motive to perpetuate their profession - experts are all liers, that's why I wear this tinfoil hat and listen to this guy in youtube who sells me health supplements". Fucking lunacy.
Habebe Member	Mon Oct 18 15:56:04 Seb, "No, it's not, and a while ago I posted the figures of the number of right wing attacks vs number of muslim terrorist incidents." Yeah well, Jihadists dont pose a huge threat to the US homeland these days either, as it was their threat was overstated as well. Islamist mostly pose a threat to US bases and embassies in the ME. The FBI claiming they are the biggest threat while lacking evidence of anything worth being concerned over. Swimming pools kill about 3500 people a year in the US. White supremacy kills between 0 and 5, usually on the lower end. Even much of the stuff they claim as white supremacy is questionable "The data is there, your own counter terrorist organisation and it's leaders have been saying this for nigh on a decade." Have you ever heard of wagging the dog? Why would any rational person trust the US intelligencence agencies with no proof and obvious political reasons for them to lie. They have a history of doing so.Does that mean this is a lie? No, it means a rational person would require evidence, for Islamists thw twin towers was a good bit of evidence, 3 major attacks in one day. Lets look at the top 3 major white supremacist attacks in the last 10 years....? The lunacy is you would rather trust the FBI ovwr a potus or Senators. "Asserting that successive heads of the FBI are not a valid source because you believe they are lying doesn't make me a lier by citing them." No, it makes you gullible.Not for thinking they are telling the truth but for not questioning how they arrived at said conclusion. Hell, look at Chicago's shooting sprees, in one weekend they shot like 60-70 people. Are WS seeking nukes? Stockpiling ricin? Having waves of violence?Kidnappings? Bombs? Do they have WS military training camps with funding? Lone wolf's? Are they stealing or acquiring military equipment?
Habebe Member	Mon Oct 18 16:00:18 The WaPo aeticle jumps around, they list Jan. 6th as a WS attack, but also BLM and CHAZ deaths dont count? I couldn't find a link to their source material.
Habebe Member	Mon Oct 18 16:02:10 From your article. "“Any expert is going to tell you that this is the most serious security threat to the American people today,” said Rep. Jamie B. Raskin (D-Md.), who held oversight hearings in 2019 that questioned the federal response to rising white-supremacist violence. “And yet we don’t have any good description of the magnitude and the dimensions of the problem.” So it's a problem they claim, the biggest, but have no idea aboit the size or dimensions...so it cpuld be 4 guys with a flag...
Habebe Member	Mon Oct 18 16:13:41 Mabey the Plan got some WMDs they're hiding. Lone wolf Columbian type shootings, yeah I could see that as a threat, I see actually events on the news ALOT.
Habebe Member	Mon Oct 18 18:43:16 http://www...d-threat-assessment/index.html Here is a CNN article with a link to homeland security page where they call it "most lethal threat" Well perhaps they suck at math. It also notes that Trump blamed Antifa and the left.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Oct 18 19:35:52 "That's not the point" I don't know what "the point" is, but that is _my_ point. WS are punished by society severely. "Firstly, do they really?" Yes. "I don't think being actively a member of a far right group is the same as having a picture of Mao." Not what I said. I said: "there is a broader sentiment that shelters extremists on the left and among Muslims, part tribal, but more importantly based on the idea that they have a real grievance and that makes less problematic. The ends justify the means in micro doses." "Really? Really?? Read above. I know there are nazis, but no one is sympathizing with them, if they are, it isn't taking place in the open. No one is is going "I don't agree with the fascists, but their grievances should be taken seriously". Nobody is excusing their anger and frustration with the ZOG. There is no WS analog of someone like George Galloway.
Seb Member	Tue Oct 19 04:12:13 Nim: I thought your point was that Muslim support in the international community was greater than support for white supremacy in the western community. I raise the police issue as a point that actually there are loads of people that are active supporters of white supremacy in exactly the places we would *not* want them as evidence suggesting that support is deeper and wider than you might think. The fact that when they are discovered they go to jail is besides the point. "I know there are nazis, but no one is sympathizing with them" How do you reach that conclusion? Obviously if you have a large march of people they sympathise with each other - and you can find plenty of people online sympathising with them. So what you start to get is this tautological view that anyone who sympathises with people expressing white supremacist views is a white supremacist, and so aside from the white supremacists, there is no support in society for white supremacists (other than whatever fraction of the population is white supremacist) - which is unhelpful. ""I don't agree with the fascists, but their grievances should be taken seriously" That's literally the entire mainstreaming of the immigration debate though isn't it. "I don't support white supremacist views, but the issue of immigration needs to be taken seriously" and before you know it you are abducting children from their parents and getting them lost in the system; or deporting British citizens to countries they never lived in because the parents had the temerity to take up an invitation from the government in the 1950's to come to the UK; and then the UK govt decided to rip up all the documentary evidence that proved they came legally precisely in order to make it easier to deport them and their children under a policy actually officially called "Hostile Environment" so they could demonstrate to a chunk of the electorate they were actually being "harsh" enough on immigrants. Of course that's motivated by racism in the segment of the electorate that cares about this stuff. No sane immigration policy starts from the basis of "How can we actively make it easier to deport people who are legally here or even citizens, just so that we can be seen to be doing so". "There is no WS analog of someone like George Galloway." Jee, how about Nigel Farage and oodles of candidates he stood up for Parliament at the last two elections who all kept saying the quiet bit out loud.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Oct 19 08:03:47 "I thought your point was that Muslim support in the international community was greater than support for white supremacy in the western community." ...I compared the implicit and explicit support of leftist and Muslim extremists with those of the WS movement. They do not compare. And if they are comparable, it is not taking place in the open. I have no reason to think that though. Islam and Leftist ideology are not exclusionary based on intrinsic characteristics. "there are loads of people" This has yet to established, but furthermore, the cost for these people, which was a point I raised, is far more severe. It just isn't socially acceptable to be a WS in white majority countries and even support for them has costs. "as evidence suggesting that support is deeper and wider than you might think." I am more precise than that, I am saying it is less than that for Muslim extremists and leftist extremists. For reasons I have mentioned. WS ideology was defeated, both physically and ideologically. "How do you reach that conclusion?" Observation, life experience, it isn't this one thing from one source. I am unambiguously identified as "not from here" from a mile away. You need to understand that racism, how prevalent it is and the consequences it may have are very important to me. Do you understand that? I am asking, because at some point you said I was glib and willfully ignorant on the matter. The racism I have experienced were not through proxy of my wife and child, it has been head on and in my face. It is an issue I need to get right, my sons will be in the scope, they are not half anything, they are full blooded sand niggers of the sex that cause all the shootings, explosions and rapes. You should take that into account when you speak with me on this subject. I am not dismissing your personal concerns, but you should understand that whatever you are concerned with here, if true, will have a far bigger impact on my life. I have zero self-interest in diminishing the prevalence of racism in the society I live in. There are academic source in support of what I am saying, for instance that immigrants of similar educational background do just as well or better than the white people, in Sweden, the USA and likely elsewhere. The short answer is I have been living in a white majority country for 36 out of 40 years. I do not see this wider support and I do not think every racist word and criticism of immigration is another brick in the wall of white power. "That's literally the entire mainstreaming of the immigration debate though isn't it." I disagree. Immigration as a political issue isn't unique to white majority societies, nor is an issue that has been capitulated to WS in white majority societies. "and before you know it you are abducting children from their parents and getting them lost in the system" Some giant leaps of logic, stripped of nuance. "Of course that's motivated by racism in the segment of the electorate that cares about this stuff." Of course... I understand your position, your thermometer for WS is being critical of immigration. I disagree and find it crude and simplistic on par with, being critical towards Israel = antisemitism. I "care about this stuff" and am very critical of how Sweden has handled immigration, the amount of people Sweden has received, the list of naive stupidity around immigration is long. There are legitimate economical and social concerns, all of which are now manifesting as bombs go off and shootings take place practically every day, or the abysmal and unsustainable employment figures among immigrants, the massive burden on and abuse of the social safety net etc. and so on. All the things I said 10 years ago to you among others are happening now. And the people who allowed this to happen, they have all changed their tune and slowly changing policy.. very slowly. Social democrats have without shame adopted Sweden Democrat talking points from 10 years ago, when they would call people racist for saying the same things 10 years ago. Reality is a bitch and will sooner or later wake people up. Another matter, but once enough damage is done, Sweden will wake up to the stupidity of closing down those nuclear reactors. This country is run by fucking morons. If your argument is this, then there is nothing to discuss that will lead us anywhere good. There are legitimate concerns about immigration, the fact that there are extremist views on that topic doesn't make it a litmus test for who is a supporter of WS. You seen this Extinction rebellion stuff? Does that mean everyone concearned about the environment and global warming are envirofascist nutbags? "Nigel Farage" Which terrorist groups has Nigel Farage voiced support for?
Sam Adams Member	Tue Oct 19 10:07:42 "No, it's not, and a while ago I posted the figures of the number of right wing attacks vs number of muslim terrorist incidents." Seb generally cherry picks his data by 1) avoiding europe where there have been more muslim attacks recently and or 2) starting the period of counting some time after 9/11. And all this ignores that there are 20 times fewer muslims. Making muslims a clearly much higher risk segment of the population, even using sebs cherry picked data
Habebe Member	Tue Oct 19 19:10:16 Sam, I call his tactics Sebisms. Im not saying WS isn't a bad issue.However I just dont see it is a major threat, let alone "our most lethal" That is a bold faced lie though, not sure how it can be called the most lethal while killing like 3 people a year or none.
Habebe Member	Tue Oct 19 19:14:57 From sebs link (source material) "The FBI wouldn’t provide specific numbers to quantify the increase of in the number of white supremacist domestic terrorism cases." But they said it was a whole lot! Thats the basis of his argument.
Habebe Member	Tue Oct 19 19:16:50 He tells me I dont see it because I dont want to, I just want to quantify the threat. Replace WS with dragons, calling it our most lethal threat is just as silly.
Daemon Member	Wed Oct 20 03:43:38 Cancel culture is destroying punk rock! http://www...of-conservative-mp-david-amess Following a social media post by Subs drummer Jamie Oliver on Friday that ‘seemingly celebrated’ the murder of Tory MP David Amess and the subsequent backlash from fans, The UK Subs have parted ways with their drummer ‘with immediate effect’. In a band statement on the UK Subs Fan Club Facebook page Alvin Gibbs said: “It gives me no pleasure to announce that following his post seemingly celebrating the tragic and abhorrent death of Conservative MP David Amess, by the hands of a terrorist, Charlie Harper, Steve Straughan, and I have decided Jamie Oliver will no longer continue as drummer for the UK Subs. “Jamie has already been informed of this and completely understands why it’s necessary. Today we discussed Jamie’s rationalisation for his post as a tasteless joke at length and jointly concluded it’s simply not viable enough an excuse for us to continue to work with him. (...)
Paramount Member	Wed Oct 20 04:56:03 So he made a joke about a dead politician and now he isn’t allowed to play in a punk band anymore. lol
Seb Member	Wed Oct 20 04:57:49 Sam: Except no, 1) that's not true, and 2) attacks in Europe are relevant to America how? Only if you assume Muslims are a homogenous group - and it is that assumption which I argue is fundamentally incorrect. So using it as a basis to prove itself is a circular argument. Meanwhile the actual issue is that you discount any attack with a political or racial motive as being out of scope. Habebe: Except you've imagined these tactics.
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 05:24:09 Seb, And you have imagined any data showing that white supremacy is our greatest or most lethal threat. Becauae the the threat is borderline non existent.
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 07:35:37 charlottesville, el paso, charleston, pittsburgh synagogue, denmark social democratic youth camp, christchurch mosque, jo cox assassination, wisconish sikh temple, capitol riots, etc...etc...etc... all the while the clowns can easily organize and encourage each other via dlive, telegram, etc...
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 07:36:43 we'll have to wait until the inevitable large scale oklahoma city style attack to happen to even get a half assed response from biden.
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 07:43:25 but yeah, dylan and patrick aren't going to be sent to Gitmo to be waterboarded any time soon.
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 08:09:12 Delusions of the MSNBC cultist...nothing more.
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 08:12:27 "Wed Oct 20 07:35:37 charlottesville, el paso, charleston, pittsburgh synagogue, denmark social democratic youth camp, christchurch mosque, jo cox assassination, wisconish sikh temple, capitol riots, etc...etc...etc..." First off, US threat, 2ndly one weekend in the south side of Chicago is still worse than all of that combined....yawn....tried to really stretch out that list...
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 08:16:42 http://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/ Dems gone wild..... Interesting map of the homicides in the last 7 days. But yes...the lol is the real.threat....
Sam Adams Member	Wed Oct 20 10:12:14 "charlottesville, el paso, charleston, pittsburgh synagogue, denmark social democratic youth camp, christchurch mosque, jo cox assassination, wisconish sikh temple, capitol riots, etc...etc...etc... " 9/11, british bus bombing, spanish train bombing, french concert massacre, british concert bombing, british train attack, san Bernardino, boston marathon, charlie hedbo, this latest stabbing, french soldier stabbings, fort hood, belgium airport bombing, and many more. These are much more deadly than your list, AND muslims make up 1/20th of the white population. Thus, muslums are about 100 times as dangerous on a per capita basis.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Oct 20 10:14:00 Forgot pulse nightclub, the french truck attack. Thats another 140 dead. Allah ackbar.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Oct 20 10:17:42 Theres about 700 targetting israelis. This one, one of the countless muslum attacks that only killed about 10 people, was in your city y2a. By comparison to other muslum attacks, it is so small it is forgotten already. http://en....017_New_York_City_truck_attack
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Oct 20 10:36:43 In defense of Palestine, that is a war zone. There is an occupation going on and regardless of what you think about that, just as part of aggregated statistics over terrorist attacks it shouldn't count.
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 10:47:46 Anyway....back to America's*** most lethal threat....
Sam Adams Member	Wed Oct 20 11:38:02 "Anyway....back to America's*** most lethal threat.... " Civil war.
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 17:13:33 Sam, I don't disagree with the thought that islamist fanatics are dangerous and need to be given the stick just that white supremacists need to be given the same stick.
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 18:44:17 Y2a, No one here is saying that WS are good. The argument is are they really big enough to be our most lethal/greatest terrorist threat? Like I live in the deep South, are there racists? Absolutely.Is there large powerful, or well funded WS organizations? No. Now contrast that to real threats we actually face. 1. Nations state /rogue hacking/ransom ware. 2. Left/right tensions, protests/counter protests erupting into violence etc. 3. Violent crime sprees/murder weekends. 4. Lone wolf crazies shooting up schools and malls. These are real tangible threats that we regular evidence of.
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 19:08:22 it's just a matter of time before some incel/ws loon radicalized on the internet live streams a mass terrorist attack on dlive. the other threats that you mentioned are (1) inter-related (left/right tensions, "lone wolves" shooting up schools or malls) (2) overstated (violent crime sprees -> crime is nowhere near the level of the 90s and will likely recede as the pandemic effects recede; nation-states as in a "real" war, doubt it any time soon) (3) real but economic -> randsomware/cyber attacks
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 19:11:42 it's also a matter of perspective, the white majority in the country has little reason to be immediately personally concerned about white supremacist terrorism.
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 19:40:11 1, related but distinctly different. 2. 70 people in ONE weekend in Chicago got shot, its not really overstated. And its not like it was a one time weekend, look at the homicide dots in the last 7 days! Statistically a black American is thousands of times more likely to be killed by violent crime than by white supremacy.Which are less lethal than shark attacks, seriously. Crime in the 80s 90s was worse, but lets be real they were like 3rd world levels back then. How many klansmen do you think there are? How well funded are they? Where are they?
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 20:52:00 I'm not saying definitively it isn't the case that I'm missing something. Whites in general may not be that focused on the issue. Me personally? Ive actively sought information on. I do think we should nail down our definitions of WS, likley we have different perceptions of what it is. All I'm really saying is, why is it this large threat? Is it just because were waiting for a WS to go nuts and bomb a building? We could say this about many of groups, ones that are probably better organized and funded.
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 21:04:13 "ones that are probably better organized and funded." outside of islamist terrorist what other non-state actors have as large and organized a community as white supremacists? Stormfront, 4chan/8chan/8kun, Dlive, Telegram, Takimag, the Proud Boys, the Turner Diaries, the Great Replacement, American Renaissance, Jared Taylor, Nick Fuentes/Groypers, etc... they have everything that is needed to be a serious threat in that they have "intellectuals", media, communications networks, literature, etc.. are dedicated to their cause. the idea of comparing "antifa" or farrakan to this level of organization and danger is pretty ridiculous.
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 21:05:00 *all dedicated to their cause
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 21:43:05 Y2a, To fairly address that question we need to know how many (ballpark figure) WS There are? And realistically active violent ones. All WS groups combined mabey 10k? O seriously have no clue, I havnt found much in the way of stats.
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 21:55:50 Ive found some numbers from a CNN article using SPLC numbers, not sure how they calculate them yet but apparently 20% of hatw groups are black supremacists. 16% are Nazi skin heads. However it also says there are many anti Islam groups some of which likley are WS but no figures on that. http://www...lain-us-hate-groups/index.html Keep in mind its CNN , I this is like absolute worst case scenario. Ot says 100s of groups but no info on how large, like is a group 8 guys online? My guess would be there are a handfull of bigger groups (kkk) with a few k and then most other groups would be less than 50, mich less.
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 22:32:15 You are looking at the problem the absolute wrong way which of course just happens to work to the benefit of your argument. how many hijackers did it take to alter world history?
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 22:37:19 how big was the pool of hijackers that al qaeda could have recruited from to conduct their terrorism? that is all you need. a big pool to chose from and an entire ecosystem from everything from low-level Pepe shitposters to American Renaissance "intellectuals" driven to motivating them to do it. that is why tarrant live streamed his terrorist attack, he had an audience that was WAY bigger than him.
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 22:43:34 A handfull, backed by millions of men and billions of dollars. Plus if your argument is that there are not many WS but they COULD possibly do something major...that argument could be used against ANY group, what singles out WS? Your argument seems to be they have potential ...even though they are fewer in numbers and poorly funded and organized and are not currently that active in violence.
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 22:53:00 Honestly BLM alone* did more damage, killed more people than all WS combined.They were also well organized ans funded by over 90 million on 2020. They can also reach a huge audience in the news everyday, a tactic WS dont have. And you know what? They still pose a minimal threat.
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 22:54:01 "what singles out WS?" I just explained the ecosystem above. that combined with the coddling the government and society gives them makes for a dangerous cocktail. "though they are fewer in numbers" fewer in numbers than who? I never said that. they played a key part in getting the clown elected and in shaping the country in the last 4 years.
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 22:57:43 "Honestly BLM alone* did more damage, killed more people than all WS combined.They were also well organized ans funded by over 90 million on 2020." this is really dumn. BLM was basically a continuation of the 60s civil rights movement. in a few situations individuals got out of hand and caused trouble but we don't talk about the civil rights movement as a violent movement even though there were riots throughout the country when King was assasinated.
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 22:57:56 *dumb
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 22:58:41 Society coddled poor white racists? Your "ecosystem" lacks any verifiable data, like statistics of membership. The KKK ( probably the most famous) according the sputhern poverty law Center has between 5k-8k members. And considering the source those numbers are likley inflated a bit, but even still, there are more gay Republicans than that.
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 23:00:13 equating people who want blacks to be treated with respect during police interactions to "great replacement" white genociders who view other people existing as a fundamental threat to them is dumb. Sorry, I won't play that game.
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 23:01:02 "Society coddled poor white racists?" have you been alive in the past 4 years?
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 23:01:45 the KKK? really? I'm sorry Habebe, but we are talking about racism in this century.
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 23:06:09 Ok, but lets cut the shit, im actual damage and death the damage dwarfs WS even within your super expanded context. Jist because someone is racist, doesn't make then a violent threat, right? But a portion probably will be. Just like BLM, 95% are probably zero threat, but that 5% could be HUGE. And that's your metric right? Their POTENTIAL to do harm, not what they are actively doing. Again, you cant say X is the biggest threat f you have no idea ofnthe svale of the threat. By every real world quantitive metric they are not a major threat. Your basing their scale interest in "it only takes 10 guys" , and I guess ypir gut? IDK ypur not giving much concrete evidence or data just hunches.
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 23:07:24 Y2a, So what are thw top 3 grpups f not the klan?
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 23:10:12 You also seem to find most of Republicans are WS....so that's kimd of am extreme.take, no?
Habebe Member	Wed Oct 20 23:13:30 Scale potential*
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 23:14:46 dylan roof, patrick the shithead el paso shooter and tarrant the mosque massacre livestreamer were not part of any formal groups. they were on the alt right corners of the internet, talking on a daily basis with other like-minded but not formally organized lunatics which our society placates to.
Y2A Member	Wed Oct 20 23:18:22 "You also seem to find most of Republicans are WS....so that's kimd of am extreme.take, no?" Let me put it this way. The majority of Germans were not rabid anti-semites, include a large portion of NSDAP voters. Many saw the NSDAP as a way to stick it to the "elites" for perceived "treason" with respect to the treaty of Versaille, a vote against the fractious multi-party weimar republic, a vote against the openness of the 20s, etc... however, those same people didn't give a shit when Kristalnacht happened, do you get me?
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