Utopia Talk - Politics - “People violate laws any time they want"

Welcome to the Utopia Forums! Register a new account
The current time is Mon Nov 25 05:23:05 PST 2024

Utopia Talk / Politics / “People violate laws any time they want"

Rugian
Member Mon Nov 18 05:56:30
Bucks County, Pennsylvania election official: “People violate laws any time they want, So, for me, if I violate this law it’s because I want a court to pay attention.”

It’s been a week since the Associated Press called Pennsylvania’s tight Senate race for Dave McCormick, concluding the Republican had closed off any viable path for Democratic Sen. Bob Casey to still eke out a win.

But their campaigns are still battling it out in counties and in court.

With certification deadlines and a statewide recount looming, the candidates are locked in a county-by-county trench battle over small tranches of contested provisional ballots left to be counted across the state. Statewide, officials estimated fewer than 80,000 of the ballots cast — or less than 2% of the vote — remained outstanding as of Thursday.

For Casey, who has resisted conceding as remaining votes are counted, those small county-level fights — sometimes over just dozens of ballots — offer his last, best chance to make up his roughly 25,000-vote deficit in the race.

Though closing the gap remains a long shot, Casey’s insistence has also reignited long-standing disputes between Republicans and Democrats over which votes should be counted and which should be rejected — and prompted some counties to openly defy recent rulings from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court.

“I think we all know that precedent by a court doesn’t matter anymore in this country,” said Bucks County Commissioner Diane Ellis-Marseglia, a Democrat, as she cast a vote Thursday to count certain deficient provisional ballots previously barred by court order, where voters did not sign in one of two necessary boxes.

“People violate laws any time they want,” she said. “So, for me, if I violate this law it’s because I want a court to pay attention. There’s nothing more important than counting votes.”

. . .

Meanwhile, a separate fight is brewing over the fate of some of the most litigated ballots in the state — mail ballots submitted without a date or with the wrong date written on the outer envelope.

Despite two earlier rulings from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court that those ballots should be rejected in this year’s election, officials in Bucks, Montgomery, Philadelphia, and Centre Counties have bucked that order and voted in recent days to include them.

Though those openly defiant decisions will almost certainly be overturned in court, they continue a recent pattern by majority commissioners in all four counties to vote for the inclusion of undated ballots. None of the commissioners who supported their inclusion couched their votes in terms of the ongoing Senate race.

http://electionlawblog.org/?p=147292

Rugian
Member Mon Nov 18 05:57:47
Pennsylvania Democrats are openly trying to steal an election in clear violation of the law. No big deal.

Democrats are the true threat to democracy.

murder
Member Mon Nov 18 06:55:34

OMG they are counting votes!!!!!!!!!

*eye roll*

Always scandalized by votes being counted. Never by votes being denied or discarded. I'm convinced that Republicans are just programmed to knee jerk react to vote counting.

murder
Member Mon Nov 18 06:58:57

“People violate laws any time they want,” she said. “So, for me, if I violate this law it’s because I want a court to pay attention. There’s nothing more important than counting votes.”

This is not going to turn out well for her. Violating a court order is one thing, running your mouth about it and openly flipping off the judge is a whole other matter. Judges really don't like that.

murder
Member Mon Nov 18 07:01:05

"People violate laws any time they want"

But enough about Trump and his crime syndicate.

Sam Adams
Member Mon Nov 18 10:09:25
Typical hypocritical dems. Good thing the gop has a large enough lead to be unassailable by such amateur shenanigans.

She should definetly go to jail though.

Rugian
Member Mon Nov 18 10:16:47
Trump truly broke the left. In their minds he got away with a myriad of crimes, so that gives them carte blanche to openly violate the law as well.

Expect to see the left increasingly turn towards explicitly authoritarian tactics as their frustration over their inability to jail the orange man grows.

tumbleweed
the wanderer Mon Nov 18 11:23:50
"In their minds he got away with a myriad of crimes"

factually true (& not even disputed, just not talked about by one side)

==========

"so that gives them carte blanche to openly violate the law as well"

i know your side going wild w/ the quote/actions, but seems like on the lines of civil disobedience ("I want a court to pay attention" is in that quote)... chucking a vote because they didn't put a date on it (that is not used for anything) is stupid, or for not using the extra secrecy envelope which is just for the voter's own privacy

Rugian
Member Mon Nov 18 11:37:11
Of course you would be defending this you hack. ROFL

"I can disregard the law if I disagree with its rules" is quite the take. I'll let Donald know that you approve of such an approach, I know he'd be quite pleased about having that option.

Rugian
Member Mon Nov 18 11:47:11
When Trump inevitably throws you into a concentration camp, we can just say he's engaging in an act of civil disobedience in order to get the courts to revisit due process law.

Rofl

murder
Member Mon Nov 18 12:31:04

"chucking a vote because they didn't put a date on it (that is not used for anything) is stupid"

It is used for something. It's used to disqualify votes.

Rugian
Member Mon Nov 18 12:41:39
Those are the rules. Election officials are bound to them, and if they cant abide by them they should resign for failing to be able to carry out the job.

murder
Member Mon Nov 18 12:46:32

Those are the rule. And for most of our history we've come up with rules to try to restrict voting. The only exception was back when it was stated clearly that only a very few had a vote.

Rugian
Member Mon Nov 18 13:21:54
I guess we should all be thankful that you aren't an election official.

tumbleweed
the wanderer Mon Nov 18 14:50:58
""I can disregard the law if I disagree with its rules" is quite the take"

your entire 'party' accepts this from Trump, he explicitly stated it as his view (w/ multiple additional examples of him having the view)

& she's not hiding what she's doing, she's not expecting to just get away w/ it... "if I violate this law it’s because I want a court to pay attention"

Rugian
Member Mon Nov 18 15:10:58
"your entire 'party' accepts this from Trump,"

One, it's not my party. Two, no they don't.

"he explicitly stated it as his view"

He has not. As much as you love quoting that "terminate the Constitution" line, that was in regards to one specific situation (a stolen election). Granted, it was still based on a dumb presence, but it wasn't the argument for rampant authoritarianism and lawlessness that you make it out to be.

"& she's not hiding what she's doing, she's not expecting to just get away w/ it... "if I violate this law it’s because I want a court to pay attention""

And she is in direct violation of the responsibilities of her job. Executive officials are supposed to take care that the laws are faithfully executed.

If she doesn't like the law, then fine. Join the Pennsylvania state legislature and amend the law, or join the state court system to interpret the law. Her job though is to carry out the law, simple as that.

I guess I now understand why you never had a problem with the Biden administration's flagrant disregard and disrespect for the Supreme Court and its rulings on student debt etc. Why, the president wasn't upsetting the system of checks and balances and undermining the legitimacy of one of the branches of government, he was just being civilly disobedient to get the courts to revisit certain issues!

Jesus Christ tumbleweed. I fully believe that the Democrats will go full dictatorship mode on us in our lifetimes, and you'll still be defending them as normal and acceptable and attacking Republicans as cult-like and terrible.

Rugian
Member Mon Nov 18 15:14:05
I mean, you were in another thread the other day claiming that a Congressional backbencher who said that he would back Trump was a "cult" member.

Sure, it's totally a cult move to back the President-Elect of the United States and the leader of your political party. Oh wait, no, that's just normal politics in the immediate aftermath of an election where your leader just scored a pretty rock-solid mandate.

This is part of the reason it's so frustrating to debate with you. Even the most anodyne moves by Republicans make them "cult" members, while even the most outrageous moves by Democrats are cool and normal.

tumbleweed
the wanderer Mon Nov 18 15:29:46
"that was in regards to one specific situation"

where he determined the situation... he said a mass fraud of this type allows for terminating all rules... who determined a mass fraud had occurred? just him... so he determines the situations where all law can be terminated

plus there's him taking the docs & saying he was allowed to take any docs he wanted (no he wasn't, nobody but him argues that is the law)

plus telling border patrol he'd pardon them if they got in trouble for violating the law

he has made many comments suggesting he doesn't give a shit about the law

--------------

Trump violates the law to get away w/ it, not have a stupid law changed

do you think he wanted the law to change to anyone can declare all laws be terminated at any time they personally decide?

----------------

"Sure, it's totally a cult move to back the President-Elect of the United States and the leader of your political party"

he said they must do whatever Trump says no matter what (not even just what he campaigned on, just whatever he comes up with)... the cultist was elected too... why should all elected R's ignore all of their views & just do what Trump says?

it's idiotic (especially so with Trump who is a demonstrated moron & criminal, w/ no attachment to reality & truth)

tumbleweed
the wanderer Mon Nov 18 15:37:41
...more on Trump's zero concern for the law:

- him telling State legislators to vote to change the electors (multiple ones told him what he was asking was not lawful & he didn't care or even insulted them... including publicly w/ PA ones... completely proven lawlessness)

= & just like Trump WILL do on recess appointments
if any struggle he'll demand they recess (or may even say so before they even begin the process... i'm sure he wants to, but adults may talk him out of it)

murder
Member Mon Nov 18 16:17:46

It's funny watching Republicans accusing Democrats of going full dictatorship while their guy is preparing to turn the armed forces on the civilian population.

murder
Member Mon Nov 18 16:19:58

"... while even the most outrageous moves by Democrats are cool and normal."

They insist on counting votes!!!!!

patom
Member Tue Nov 19 10:42:22
This will probably be the last time we will have an election, so why worry about it too much.

tumbleweed
the wanderer Tue Nov 19 18:48:01
"The Boards' only basis for disenfranchising these voters is a technical error that is immaterial under both state and federal law"
~ radical leftist, communist, marxist

oh wait no, that's McCormick's lawyers (the R in this same race) when trying to win the primary against Dr Oz in 2022 (him wanting to have these same type of votes counted back then... but not now...)

shitbaggery

kargen
Member Tue Nov 19 20:41:20
It was against the law then and is against the law now. Best way for the authorities to show they are paying attention is to arrest her criminal ass. She can serve as a martyr in jail to have the law changed for future elections. That as she says is the most important thing.

show deleted posts

Rugian Member	Mon Nov 18 05:56:30 Bucks County, Pennsylvania election official: “People violate laws any time they want, So, for me, if I violate this law it’s because I want a court to pay attention.” It’s been a week since the Associated Press called Pennsylvania’s tight Senate race for Dave McCormick, concluding the Republican had closed off any viable path for Democratic Sen. Bob Casey to still eke out a win. But their campaigns are still battling it out in counties and in court. With certification deadlines and a statewide recount looming, the candidates are locked in a county-by-county trench battle over small tranches of contested provisional ballots left to be counted across the state. Statewide, officials estimated fewer than 80,000 of the ballots cast — or less than 2% of the vote — remained outstanding as of Thursday. For Casey, who has resisted conceding as remaining votes are counted, those small county-level fights — sometimes over just dozens of ballots — offer his last, best chance to make up his roughly 25,000-vote deficit in the race. Though closing the gap remains a long shot, Casey’s insistence has also reignited long-standing disputes between Republicans and Democrats over which votes should be counted and which should be rejected — and prompted some counties to openly defy recent rulings from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. “I think we all know that precedent by a court doesn’t matter anymore in this country,” said Bucks County Commissioner Diane Ellis-Marseglia, a Democrat, as she cast a vote Thursday to count certain deficient provisional ballots previously barred by court order, where voters did not sign in one of two necessary boxes. “People violate laws any time they want,” she said. “So, for me, if I violate this law it’s because I want a court to pay attention. There’s nothing more important than counting votes.” . . . Meanwhile, a separate fight is brewing over the fate of some of the most litigated ballots in the state — mail ballots submitted without a date or with the wrong date written on the outer envelope. Despite two earlier rulings from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court that those ballots should be rejected in this year’s election, officials in Bucks, Montgomery, Philadelphia, and Centre Counties have bucked that order and voted in recent days to include them. Though those openly defiant decisions will almost certainly be overturned in court, they continue a recent pattern by majority commissioners in all four counties to vote for the inclusion of undated ballots. None of the commissioners who supported their inclusion couched their votes in terms of the ongoing Senate race. http://electionlawblog.org/?p=147292
Rugian Member	Mon Nov 18 05:57:47 Pennsylvania Democrats are openly trying to steal an election in clear violation of the law. No big deal. Democrats are the true threat to democracy.
murder Member	Mon Nov 18 06:55:34 OMG they are counting votes!!!!!!!!! eye roll Always scandalized by votes being counted. Never by votes being denied or discarded. I'm convinced that Republicans are just programmed to knee jerk react to vote counting.
murder Member	Mon Nov 18 06:58:57 “People violate laws any time they want,” she said. “So, for me, if I violate this law it’s because I want a court to pay attention. There’s nothing more important than counting votes.” This is not going to turn out well for her. Violating a court order is one thing, running your mouth about it and openly flipping off the judge is a whole other matter. Judges really don't like that.
murder Member	Mon Nov 18 07:01:05 "People violate laws any time they want" But enough about Trump and his crime syndicate.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Nov 18 10:09:25 Typical hypocritical dems. Good thing the gop has a large enough lead to be unassailable by such amateur shenanigans. She should definetly go to jail though.
Rugian Member	Mon Nov 18 10:16:47 Trump truly broke the left. In their minds he got away with a myriad of crimes, so that gives them carte blanche to openly violate the law as well. Expect to see the left increasingly turn towards explicitly authoritarian tactics as their frustration over their inability to jail the orange man grows.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Nov 18 11:23:50 "In their minds he got away with a myriad of crimes" factually true (& not even disputed, just not talked about by one side) ========== "so that gives them carte blanche to openly violate the law as well" i know your side going wild w/ the quote/actions, but seems like on the lines of civil disobedience ("I want a court to pay attention" is in that quote)... chucking a vote because they didn't put a date on it (that is not used for anything) is stupid, or for not using the extra secrecy envelope which is just for the voter's own privacy
Rugian Member	Mon Nov 18 11:37:11 Of course you would be defending this you hack. ROFL "I can disregard the law if I disagree with its rules" is quite the take. I'll let Donald know that you approve of such an approach, I know he'd be quite pleased about having that option.
Rugian Member	Mon Nov 18 11:47:11 When Trump inevitably throws you into a concentration camp, we can just say he's engaging in an act of civil disobedience in order to get the courts to revisit due process law. Rofl
murder Member	Mon Nov 18 12:31:04 "chucking a vote because they didn't put a date on it (that is not used for anything) is stupid" It is used for something. It's used to disqualify votes.
Rugian Member	Mon Nov 18 12:41:39 Those are the rules. Election officials are bound to them, and if they cant abide by them they should resign for failing to be able to carry out the job.
murder Member	Mon Nov 18 12:46:32 Those are the rule. And for most of our history we've come up with rules to try to restrict voting. The only exception was back when it was stated clearly that only a very few had a vote.
Rugian Member	Mon Nov 18 13:21:54 I guess we should all be thankful that you aren't an election official.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Nov 18 14:50:58 ""I can disregard the law if I disagree with its rules" is quite the take" your entire 'party' accepts this from Trump, he explicitly stated it as his view (w/ multiple additional examples of him having the view) & she's not hiding what she's doing, she's not expecting to just get away w/ it... "if I violate this law it’s because I want a court to pay attention"
Rugian Member	Mon Nov 18 15:10:58 "your entire 'party' accepts this from Trump," One, it's not my party. Two, no they don't. "he explicitly stated it as his view" He has not. As much as you love quoting that "terminate the Constitution" line, that was in regards to one specific situation (a stolen election). Granted, it was still based on a dumb presence, but it wasn't the argument for rampant authoritarianism and lawlessness that you make it out to be. "& she's not hiding what she's doing, she's not expecting to just get away w/ it... "if I violate this law it’s because I want a court to pay attention"" And she is in direct violation of the responsibilities of her job. Executive officials are supposed to take care that the laws are faithfully executed. If she doesn't like the law, then fine. Join the Pennsylvania state legislature and amend the law, or join the state court system to interpret the law. Her job though is to carry out the law, simple as that. I guess I now understand why you never had a problem with the Biden administration's flagrant disregard and disrespect for the Supreme Court and its rulings on student debt etc. Why, the president wasn't upsetting the system of checks and balances and undermining the legitimacy of one of the branches of government, he was just being civilly disobedient to get the courts to revisit certain issues! Jesus Christ tumbleweed. I fully believe that the Democrats will go full dictatorship mode on us in our lifetimes, and you'll still be defending them as normal and acceptable and attacking Republicans as cult-like and terrible.
Rugian Member	Mon Nov 18 15:14:05 I mean, you were in another thread the other day claiming that a Congressional backbencher who said that he would back Trump was a "cult" member. Sure, it's totally a cult move to back the President-Elect of the United States and the leader of your political party. Oh wait, no, that's just normal politics in the immediate aftermath of an election where your leader just scored a pretty rock-solid mandate. This is part of the reason it's so frustrating to debate with you. Even the most anodyne moves by Republicans make them "cult" members, while even the most outrageous moves by Democrats are cool and normal.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Nov 18 15:29:46 "that was in regards to one specific situation" where he determined the situation... he said a mass fraud of this type allows for terminating all rules... who determined a mass fraud had occurred? just him... so he determines the situations where all law can be terminated plus there's him taking the docs & saying he was allowed to take any docs he wanted (no he wasn't, nobody but him argues that is the law) plus telling border patrol he'd pardon them if they got in trouble for violating the law he has made many comments suggesting he doesn't give a shit about the law -------------- Trump violates the law to get away w/ it, not have a stupid law changed do you think he wanted the law to change to anyone can declare all laws be terminated at any time they personally decide? ---------------- "Sure, it's totally a cult move to back the President-Elect of the United States and the leader of your political party" he said they must do whatever Trump says no matter what (not even just what he campaigned on, just whatever he comes up with)... the cultist was elected too... why should all elected R's ignore all of their views & just do what Trump says? it's idiotic (especially so with Trump who is a demonstrated moron & criminal, w/ no attachment to reality & truth)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Nov 18 15:37:41 ...more on Trump's zero concern for the law: - him telling State legislators to vote to change the electors (multiple ones told him what he was asking was not lawful & he didn't care or even insulted them... including publicly w/ PA ones... completely proven lawlessness) = & just like Trump WILL do on recess appointments if any struggle he'll demand they recess (or may even say so before they even begin the process... i'm sure he wants to, but adults may talk him out of it)
murder Member	Mon Nov 18 16:17:46 It's funny watching Republicans accusing Democrats of going full dictatorship while their guy is preparing to turn the armed forces on the civilian population.
murder Member	Mon Nov 18 16:19:58 "... while even the most outrageous moves by Democrats are cool and normal." They insist on counting votes!!!!!
patom Member	Tue Nov 19 10:42:22 This will probably be the last time we will have an election, so why worry about it too much.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Nov 19 18:48:01 "The Boards' only basis for disenfranchising these voters is a technical error that is immaterial under both state and federal law" ~ radical leftist, communist, marxist oh wait no, that's McCormick's lawyers (the R in this same race) when trying to win the primary against Dr Oz in 2022 (him wanting to have these same type of votes counted back then... but not now...) shitbaggery
kargen Member	Tue Nov 19 20:41:20 It was against the law then and is against the law now. Best way for the authorities to show they are paying attention is to arrest her criminal ass. She can serve as a martyr in jail to have the law changed for future elections. That as she says is the most important thing.
	show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message: