Utopia Talk / Politics / Elon knifes Farage

murder Member	Sun Jan 05 14:04:27 Musk says Farage 'doesn't have what it takes' to be Reform UK leader Elon Musk has called for Nigel Farage to be replaced as leader of Reform UK, just weeks after reports the multi-billionaire was in talks to donate to the party. In a post on his social media site X, Musk said Farage "doesn't have what it takes" to lead the party - but did not explain his reasoning. Farage suggested this was due to a disagreement over Musk's support for far-right activist Tommy Robinson. He said Musk's comment was "a surprise", but that he would "never sell out my principles". The comment from the tech entrepreneur comes hours after Farage described Musk as a "friend" in an interview on the BBC's Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg programme. Musk has been a vocal supporter of Farage and his party, posting on X in December that Britain "absolutely" needs Reform UK. But this week a rift emerged over Musk's support for Robinson, real name Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, who is currently serving an 18-month prison sentence for contempt of court. Robinson admitted in court to breaching an injunction against repeating claims about a Syrian refugee schoolboy after losing a 2021 libel case. In a social media post on Sunday in response to Musk's comment, Farage said: "Elon is a remarkable individual but on this I am afraid I disagree". "My view remains that Tommy Robinson is not right for Reform and I never sell out my principles." Minutes after Farage made his statement, Musk posted on X: "Free Tommy Robinson now." In the interview broadcast earlier on Sunday, Farage called Musk a "hero" who makes Reform UK "look cool". But he added that Musk's support "doesn't mean I have to agree with every single statement he makes on X". Farage said he planned to "have a conversation with (Musk) on a variety of things" - including Robinson - at the inauguration of President-elect Donald Trump. Farage has maintained close ties to Trump, who has given Musk a role in his administration. The question now is whether Farage's friendship with the president-elect is affected. Farage founded Reform UK in 2018, then called the Brexit Party, and returned as the party's leader before being elected as an MP in 2024. In December, Farage, along with Reform's new party treasurer Nick Candy, met Musk at Mar-a-Lago for an hour-long meeting, and began "open negotiations" about a donation to the party. Musk's father Errol has suggested the SpaceX and Tesla mogul might even be prepared to become a UK citizen to make a $100m (£80.5 m) donation to Reform UK. Farage later said speculation about the figure was "for the birds". As a US citizen, Musk cannot make personal political donations in the UK - but could make one through the British branch of his company X. For now, at least it seems the rumours of a large donation from Musk to Reform are on ice. Since his meeting with Farage, Musk has increasingly taken an interest in UK politics - focusing on criticism of Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer. Musk has spent the week amplifying calls by Reform UK and the Conservative Party for a national inquiry into grooming gangs. The calls came after the government turned down a request to conduct an inquiry into historical cases of sexual abuse in Oldham, saying the council should lead it instead. This prompted Musk to accuse Sir Keir of failing to properly prosecute "rape gangs" while he was director of public prosecutions. Musk also said Safeguarding Minister Jess Phillips "deserves to be in prison" and called her a "rape genocide apologist". Asked about Musk's comments on Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg, Farage said the CEO had used "very tough terms, but that "free speech was back" on X under his ownership. In 2022, an independent inquiry by Greater Manchester Combined Authority found that vulnerable children were left exposed to sexual exploitation in Oldham because of "serious failings" by the police and council. The government has rejected the calls for a national inquiry, instead asking Oldham Council to set up its own. The previous Conservative government turned down a similar request in 2022. Phillips and Home Secretary Yvette Cooper said in a letter to the Conservatives that the local authority had already started setting up an inquiry. The letter also pointed to the 2022 Child Sexual Abuse Inquiry, which investigated abuse in care homes, churches, homes or by grooming gangs. The report knitted several previous inquiries into grooming gangs together, including in Rotherham, Rochdale and Telford, alongside its own investigations. Speaking on Sunday, Health Secretary Wes Streeting said the government was prioritising "getting on with" implementing the report's 20 recommendations to combat child sexual abuse. He told the BBC that Musk's criticism of Phillips was a "disgraceful smear" and said "people like Keir Starmer and Jess Phillips have done the hard yards of actually locking up wife beaters, rapists and paedophiles". http://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c70ep8lp4jjo
Rugian Member	Sun Jan 05 14:06:15 Okay...what is wrong with this guy? Clearly something went down with him and the UK.
murder Member	Sun Jan 05 14:17:57 Power has gone to his head. Now he wants to be kingmaker everywhere. -
jergul large member	Sun Jan 05 14:41:18 The UK holds a special place in the hearts of South Africans. Like a thousand times more expansive than the US infatuation with anything Royal.
jergul large member	Sun Jan 05 14:42:46 (white south africans) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x64b8uq
jergul large member	Sun Jan 05 14:52:18 (not a bad show to watch if you want more reference points to what it is to be British. Yes PM nails posh UK if you want that. Dated? Like the British change. Lol).
jergul large member	Sun Jan 05 14:53:14 (and abfab + black adder. Maybe comic relief. That should do you nicely).
Seb Member	Sun Jan 05 16:07:35 Rugian: Looking at the times he posts, I think the issue is that he is: 1. insomniac and on drugs, and while America is asleep most of the english language feeds are from the uk. 2. his own algo is feeding him right wing lunatics.
williamthebastard Member	Sun Jan 05 17:46:07 One of the many downsides to construcing a social system that funnels enormous amounts of societys wealth to a tiny minority is that apart from all the social harm and deprivation, it also tends to make the actual recipients mentally ill
williamthebastard Member	Sun Jan 05 17:48:09 I dont think there's a single upside to that sick construct of institutionalized greed.
williamthebastard Member	Sun Jan 05 17:50:07 "sick construct of institutionalized greed" Or, as Alpha Male calls it, the meaning of life
Sam Adams Member	Sun Jan 05 21:56:06 "Looking at the times he posts" He doesnt really have a home mansion or yacht the way many billionares do... hes traveling all over the place, on fucked up schedules/jet lagged. That could be part of the wierd timing, but it also contributes to going crazy. Its extremely natural to have a main base, and at some point excessive travel takes a major toll on you. We arent designed for it... look at the life expectancy of freight pilots... pretty rough way to live though it can be fun for some people.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Jan 05 22:02:15 Plus he seems out of shape... another signal of mental instability. At the same time hes right about a great many things and is leading industrial efforts that are doing more good for humanity than almost all european governments combined, ever. Complex man our elon. Shades of von braun.
Rugian Member	Mon Jan 06 05:20:39 Vote now everyone! "Elon Musk @elonmusk America should liberate the people of Britain from their tyrannical government Yes / No 446,502 votes 20 hours left 2:51 AM · Jan 6, 2025 6.3M Views" http://x.com/elonmusk/status/1876174862747930717
Seb Member	Mon Jan 06 06:20:29 Sam: He's been showing signs of burnout for a while. I think he gets far too much credit for what SpaceX team does, and tends to bring them in to do the heavy lifting. Where he gets involved directly, he tends to make poor decisions. But once you have a certain level of wealth it's very hard to fail.
Seb Member	Mon Jan 06 06:22:14 That said, picking a fight with most of the developed world, and then falling out with Trump might stress test that proposition.
jergul large member	Mon Jan 06 08:53:49 Stay away from ketamin, kids.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jan 06 09:31:53 Well ya obviously hes just the business leader and dozen brilliant lead engineers get the real credit for the rocket construction along with a whole team of lesser engineers and fabricators. Where musk does get huge credit is the cash. Bezos too. Without their money none of this happens.
Paramount Member	Mon Jan 06 09:53:50 Elon Musk 2028 I think he will be a good president for the United States.
jergul large member	Mon Jan 06 10:05:27 Sammy Bezos is fair enough (though actually, we would want to thank his parents for the seed money). Musk leveraged pseudo ownership of Tesla and defacto control of the board to transfer way too much money from stock holders to himself. Crony capitalism in a nutshell. Para Sure, why not? The Constitution can be ammended to fix an outdated "American born" rule to make it happen. God knows Musk can play kingmaker in enough congressional elections to have a shot at it.
Seb Member	Mon Jan 06 10:25:38 Sam/Jergul: Bezos it's a different kettle of fish - he genuinely drove the strategy of Amazon and the culture and he absolutely built Amazon and "earned" his billions (well, that and the US indulgence on anti-trust behaviours) Elon basically "earned" what fortune he didn't inherit from being bought out of PayPal after fucking every major decision up: from the decision to implement a Microsoft stack, the X branding, resisting Thiels correct call to focus on eBay post by email and instead grandiose ideas to offer all financial services including massive loss making digital credit cards. All that can be said is he made a few very good calls to invest in Tesla and in SpaceX, but both were already established and both have pretty good management teams that seem to be capable of keeping him out of imposing too many bad decisions. As jergul says, he's more an example of crony capitalism.
Seb Member	Mon Jan 06 10:27:41 His success actually seems to be indicative of potential weaknesses, not strength, in American business culture. He's more of a rent seeker than an industrialist.
jergul large member	Mon Jan 06 10:48:09 To put it another way. Musk has made 71 thousand dollars per tesla sold. Not bad when a model three goes for 41 thousand dollars without rebates.
jergul large member	Mon Jan 06 10:52:15 Seb Right out. Let me correct to "also thank his parents for the seed money".
jergul large member	Mon Jan 06 10:52:33 Righto rather*
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jan 06 10:56:14 Yet he is still putting much of that money back into spacex. Spacex would almost certainly not be as far along as it is without elons cash.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jan 06 10:59:29 Most billionaires are not funding rockets with their cash, or doing anything at all useful. This puts bezos and musk many steps up. Its not the engineering, its the money they get credit for.
jergul large member	Mon Jan 06 11:20:34 Sammy How much money do you think Musk has put into SpaceX net?
jergul large member	Mon Jan 06 11:30:33 Answer: 90 million 2002 dollars.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jan 06 11:34:11 He spent a third of his money on it during its initial years 2 decades ago. Since then its hard to tell.
jergul large member	Mon Jan 06 11:35:22 A shitload of billionaires have put way more money than that into SpaceX in various capitalization schemes.
jergul large member	Mon Jan 06 11:37:04 Since then, nothing. Not hard to tell at all. And it was 90 million 2002 dollars. You may want to revise you appreciation scale somewhat.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jan 06 11:40:01 "Since then, nothing." Wrong.
jergul large member	Mon Jan 06 12:05:24 Fine. What have you found beyond the 90 million?
williamthebastard Member	Mon Jan 06 12:23:35 Lol Musk the selfless philanthropist. These Nazis cant be taken seriously for a second
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jan 06 12:26:13 A number of musk stock sales in the 2010s had no obvious other purpose. Also loans taken out in the early days were likely backed by musks tesla stocks. Probably 5 billion in total would be a reasonable guess. Now spacex is turning a profit but instead of taking his share of that profit hes just dumping it back into starship. So maybe 10b in funding all together for his mars hunt.
williamthebastard Member	Mon Jan 06 12:26:13 "Waaaa Ukraine used starlink!" Any owner except for russian and north korean owners would have been happy to let Ukraine use starlink - without - doing pro-russian shit like Musk did http://www...sneak-attack-russian-navy.html
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jan 06 12:29:45 Lol poor wtb. Musk and bezos do more good for humanity in a minute than you have in your entire life. That must bug you
williamthebastard Member	Mon Jan 06 12:34:25 Lol poor wtb. Hitler did more good for humanity in a minute than you have in your entire life. That must bug you - genetically inferior Oddams
williamthebastard Member	Mon Jan 06 12:43:34 "Waaaaah el-ron created jobs!" As all alpha male survivalist individualists like ODD Boi know, humans cant survive unless a feudal lord gives them jobs! Or, as the the same people did in medieval times, owns all the farming land and lets them farm and hunt on it, else they wouldnt know how to farm and hunt! Ive created at least 70 jobs in my time, idiot ODD Boi has created zero.
jergul large member	Mon Jan 06 12:49:12 Sammy Probably 90 million would be the total reasonable guess. The 40 rounds of capitalization were done by way of stock dilution. Which is how Musk would give money to SpaceX too (buy some of the new stocks the company created). No record of that happening.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jan 06 13:52:18 wtb you are retarded. Go get help. There is plenty of record of that happening jergul. You are bad at finding records.
williamthebastard Member	Mon Jan 06 13:56:52 I pray to my feudal master every night! Not only do I get a small hut to live in for mucking his cows 60 hours a week, once a week he lets me out to pasture! Without him we’d all be dead, cos I couldn’t survive a minute without feudal lords owning everyone’s means of survival! - Poor Serf Oddams
williamthebastard Member	Mon Jan 06 13:57:52 My feudal master has done more for humanity than you! He lets humanity muck his cows in exchange for huts to live in! Grrrr!!
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jan 06 14:23:15 I can find records that show elon probably spent at least a billion in the 2006-2020 timeframe. But i cant be bothered to dig too deep into his precise holdings. The actual number is probably higher. It does not look like it could go much above 10b. For comparison bezos says he is spending about 1B a year on blue, this occurring for the last few years. So it seems like he has spent in the 5B range as well. 5B seems like a good number for development through first flight of a new super heavy rocket. Lol@governments.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jan 06 14:25:22 What would nasa and esa spend? I shudder at the thought. 10x prolly.
williamthebastard Member	Mon Jan 06 14:31:20 Lol@serfs who think feudal lords are philanthropists :D
jergul large member	Mon Jan 06 15:09:21 It does not look like it went beyond 90 million. You are taking your idoltary a bit far imo.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jan 06 18:16:44 Soviet missiles look like birds to you, so what you think something looks like doesnt count for much now does it.
jergul large member	Mon Jan 06 19:04:17 No worries. We can agree to disagree.
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