Utopia Talk / Politics / Free speech caused the Holocaust

Rugian Member	Mon Feb 17 01:36:21 CBS Host Says Holocaust Happened Because Of Free Speech http://youtu.be/onHvbQKwGps?si=nVYxobLH3Pe7MhTu You don't hate the media nearly enough.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Feb 17 03:21:18 This one was funny because there are two ways that Regime sycophants destroy their own narratives with her argument. 1) Let's say she's correct. Why is it that having true free speech would cause "anti-Semitism"? That's a strange argument, is it not? Similarly, why do unrestricted A.I. models become "anti-Semitic"? Why do platforms without censorship become right-wing? Why are leftists and jews so often behind mass-censorship campaigns via, e.g., the ADL? Why do jews and their slaves so often change laws to make "anti-Semitism" illegal? The answer is simple, but not in the way that Regime sycophants pretend. In their deluded minds as evil social engineers, people should be kept from the truth because the truth produces right-wing thought. The parallax on that argument is that the truth would make people realize that "the Holocaust" was not an accident, a scapegoating, or without reason. This is a separate thing from whether or not there *should* be a Holocaust, but in the sickly boomer-deluded mind, there is no difference between people having legitimate arguments against infiltrators and destroyers (one argument) and calling for their annihilation (a separate argument). The guilt in their conscience is revealed in such statements as an indicator of what they believe is just punishment for their actions; they think that the truth itself would necessitate their annihilation. What terrible truths could free speech thus reveal about them? 2) Let's say she's incorrect and that instead free speech was *suppressed* leading into "the Holocaust". Who, then, suppressed free speech? The Bolsheviks. The error that many post-WWII boomer-delusion havers experience is the belief that National Socialists popped out of the sky and established totalitarianism. This is false. Bolsheviks spread throughout the West and in particular Russia and Germany, expanding totalitarianism. It was in their wake that German nationals inherited their damages. Bolsheviks largely controlled the German press, with this CBS "journalist", Margaret Brennan, being a modern representation of the Bolshevik press. Only fools today doubt that Bolsheviks control the Western press. Left-wingers can only cite Fox News and podcasters desperate for sponsorships as "proof" of right-wing control, while nearly every "official" and well-funded speech organ has been co-opted by the left as a mouthpiece of Bolshevism — and all of them unanimously complain about free speech via proxies and lies such as "hate speech" (which does not exist), "misinformation", and other thought-terminating clichés. Or, to soften the blow for people still drinking the Flavor Aid of "our greatest ally", left-wing censorship results in the expanding powers of Bolshevik totalitarianism, whereas free speech gives the public the ability to address that totalitarianism. People against free speech are overtly totalitarian, whereas people who are pro-free-speech *except* for "our greatest ally" merely make Boromir's mistake of believing that they can wield the One Ring. They cannot.
Rugian Member	Mon Feb 17 03:58:32 Sigh. I was trying to highlight the insanity of the modern left for all here to see...well that's been effectively sabotaged by a "the Holocaust was not without reason" post that 99% of the population would find abhorrent. So congratulations. You made Margaret Brennan look reasonable and sane by comparison. I hope you're happy. By the way, did the Poles also have what they got coming to them? Seeing as they were also the victims of Nazi genocide and all. Its almost like the Holocaust was a horrific crime against humanity with no possible justification whatsoever.
Rugian Member	Mon Feb 17 03:59:48 A quick gutcheck for determining if you're absolutely in the wrong on any given position: Are you supportive of industrial genocide? If so, you're wrong.
Seb Member	Mon Feb 17 04:55:11 Maybe, Rugian, what you've found is that edge you are the lord of has eroded to a finely honed razor and you are on the wrong side. It's not the left that looks to be mostly insane. It's you.
Rugian Member	Mon Feb 17 04:57:06 Ah, thanks Seb for bringing it right back. I assume you agree with Margaret Brennan then, that the Holocaust was caused by free speech.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Feb 17 05:09:50 [Rugian]: ""the Holocaust was not without reason" post that 99% of the population would find abhorrent." Why do you always fail your IQ test when it comes to the jew? I literally explained (in advance) how your straw-man fallacy here is a delusional misrepresentation made by slavish weaklings, but you nevertheless insisted that that is the argument that I made (thus, an egregious lie). Are you jewish, lutheran, or calvinist, by any chance? Or, are you one of their slave castes, such as the White Evangelical or the White Catholic? I'm curious what drives liars. I understand it with regards to the leftist, but it intrigues be when someone on the right decides to be a slave as well.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Feb 17 05:10:28 *intrigues [me]
Rugian Member	Mon Feb 17 05:34:00 CC You have made it clear during your time here that you think the Holocaust against Jews was justified (but also largely a hoax). No one is in any doubt of where you stand in terms of whether there should have been a Holocaust. The sad part is that we have a literal leftist totalitarian (Seb) in here who would happily say that free speech is a dangerous concept that needs to be heavily curtailed. But we're not talking about him, instead we're talking about how anti-Semitism is somehow a good thing that would thrive if it wasn't forcibly suppressed by those evil Jews.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Feb 17 05:46:27 [Rugian (liar)]: "You have made it clear during your time here that you think the Holocaust against Jews was justified (but also largely a hoax)." False. Why would you so egregiously lie? Are you jewish, lutheran, or calvinist, by any chance? Or, are you one of their slave castes, such as the White Evangelical or the White Catholic? What drives you to lie so overtly? Is it nature or are you committed to being a slave to "our greatest ally" due to Christian Zionism's rapture/enslavement fantasy?
Seb Member	Mon Feb 17 06:56:15 Rugian: I say no such thing; what you consider to be "free speech" goes way beyond historical norms of protected speech to inciting and even coordinating violence. I'm unfamiliar with this woman or her statement, but familiar enough with you and the defence you have put up to those that have done so that people*ought* to be able to directly call for violence against groups and individuals and even plan it (specific targets at specific times) to know it's almost certainly the case this is what we are talking about here. Europe has nothing to learn from the US about free speech, but the US has a lot to learn about the rise of populist autocrats and violent ethno nationalists. The only question Rugian is when CC and her friends start openly organisinging/ the purge against you as a race traitor for defending the Jews; whether you will be defending to (your) death her right to do that as a valid exercise in free speech or not.
murder Member	Mon Feb 17 07:20:00 When Rugian and others on the right say "free speech", what they mean is freedom to bully. -
murder Member	Mon Feb 17 07:33:07 Just don't tell white kids that white people have oppressed and continue to oppress colored people, because that hurts their feeling and has to outlawed. -
murder Member	Mon Feb 17 07:33:59 Also you can't tell them that gays and trannies exist. -
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Feb 17 08:50:29 When people like murder and others say bully, what they mean is opinions that don't agree with or like. Like pointing out facts about crime, IQ, the two sexes and that children should not be sterilized or groomed by trannies and gays. I'm sorry you feel that way, but in "our" version of the world, you are free to feel that way and also express it. And that is why "we" are better than you. XXX
Daemon Member	Mon Feb 17 09:26:11 It's an old discussion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance The paradox of tolerance is a philosophical concept suggesting that if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance, thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance. This paradox was articulated by philosopher Karl Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies (1945),[1] where he argued that a truly tolerant society must retain the right to deny tolerance to those who promote intolerance. Popper posited that if intolerant ideologies are allowed unchecked expression, they could exploit open society values to erode or destroy tolerance itself through authoritarian or oppressive practices
murder Member	Mon Feb 17 18:45:22 "Like pointing out facts about crime, IQ, the two sexes and that children should not be sterilized or groomed by trannies and gays." Or the connection between ethnicities and national security threats in the west. You and your family have a life worth living thanks solely to progressives. -
Sam Adams Member	Mon Feb 17 20:30:03 Yes murder, progressives arguing for workplace safety in 1910 were correct. But thats utterly irrelevant to now.
kargen Member	Mon Feb 17 23:10:00 "Let's say she's correct." No, let's not because she isn't. The Reichstag Fire Decree in 1933 took away the right to free expression and most other rights. That decree is what allowed the Nazi party to take and keep control of the German government. So no matter your views on the holocaust there was no free speech in Germany while that was going on.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Feb 17 23:10:42 [sebfaggot (liar, treasonous swine)]: "The only question Rugian is when CC and her friends start openly organisinging/ the purge against you as a race traitor for defending the Jews; whether you will be defending to (your) death her right to do that as a valid exercise in free speech or not." See how openly sebnonce lies? He continually tells this lie that I want to "purge" people (I do not; I repeatedly have expressed punishments in terms of offenses), and in the thread "UK Endorses Migrant Rape Gangs" ( http://uto...hread=93857&time=1739710860144 ), I repeatedly called him out for this lie and showed that his inability to quote any evidence of me saying this is proof of his lies, but that does not stop a liar. He will just keep lying. Liars will just hope they can lie-as-truth and get people to believe that something must have been said for them to be able to tell the lie so often. But they're just liars. sebfag has no morality but that of a slave. He is evil. The closer you get to the core of anti-White genocidal psychopaths such as sebgul, the more they lie. It's their nature. People might similarly wonder why people who are capable of avoiding these obvious sebbish pitfalls in many cases will suddenly become liars when it comes to protecting the jew — who is similarly openly genocidal and anti-White. People so thoughtlessly protecting these subversives still have not realized that the same genocidal rhetoric that the jew uses against Palestinians is the same rhetoric that they use against White people and encourage Western leftists to adopt against White people. If you could not recognize the subversion against Palestinians, then, naturally, you'll be dumbstruck when you see jews dispossessing White people in their own lands. You'll similarly believe that it's not a genocide at all! That it's not even happening! [Daemfag (overt faggot and pederast, likely jew)]: "The paradox of tolerance" Left-wing faggots always bring this up when they're ready to make another Bolshevik move leftwards. It should be noted that left-wing faggots such as this always slide into Marcusean "repressive tolerance", which is where they tell themselves that they cannot tolerate "Nazis", but "Nazis" very quickly becomes a thought-bubble for "anything at all that is even slightly right-wing". (I.e., they do not "tolerate" the right **at all** because the right prevents them from rapidly causing a slave revolt.) Hence, the psychotic leftist cites Popper while referring to Marcuse's conclusions: the leftist systematically closes the Overton Window on all right-wing thought under the lie of "paradox of tolerance" (repressive tolerance). Even someone who recognizes the leftist's anti-White genocide as "bad thing" is thus considered a "Nazi"/"fascist" (we see this often with williamthecoward, murderfag, and sebnonce). Even having borders is "fascist". Protecting your own nation from absolute destruction is "Hitler-like". In other words, in their liarly pretense, they claim that the "paradox of tolerance" is merely preventing "Nazis" from assuming power, but in reality "repressive tolerance" is the sebbish/slavish exercise of *only* allowing a perpetual incremental shift leftward, precipitating a slave revolt, White-genocide, and the destruction of the West. "Repressive tolerance" is the slave revolt's method of destroying a Western society's immune response — of destroying its right-wing so that the society can be destroyed by infiltrators, subversives, and external conquerors. It's like subversives in a castle-under-siege systematically disarming the archers on the walls and taking swords from their knights while making the left-wing argument for opening the gates to an enemy that has repeatedly stated that it intends no quarter. That is the "paradox of tolerance" in action within a left-wing system. Daemfag is merely opening the gates of Toledo, being as he is a dysgenic freak with no conscience who hates his own society.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Feb 17 23:20:43 [kargen]: "The Reichstag Fire Decree in 1933 took away the right to free expression and most other rights. That decree is what allowed the Nazi party to take and keep control of the German government. So no matter your views on the holocaust there was no free speech in Germany while that was going on." This is false. Again, it was Bolsheviks who were destroying free speech. We can see this same thing in action today with the Democrats, who themselves represent Bolshevism. Is it "free speech" for a coalition of Democrats in media, finance, and governance to systematically shadow-ban the opposition, deplatform the opposition, and make every end-run possible to deny the opposition's free speech? Fucking *no*. If, meanwhile, the opposition gained power and stopped this Bolshevik denial of free speech, would not these Bolsheviks claim that it was their *opposition* who were denying "free speech"? If this seems confusing, just remember that these leftist liars have no issue inverting "free speech" to mean "only speech with which we agree." sebbish destroyers routinely cite "hate speech" as though it's a real thing (it is not; it is totalitarian thought reform), plainly reflecting this inversion. Laws against "anti-Semitism" routinely are established in nations captured by Bolshevism. In other words, the National Socialists realized that the Bolsheviks had infiltrated all levers of propaganda with their totalitarian thought reform, and it was this manipulation of propaganda that was stopped. Bolsheviks infiltrate propaganda first and foremost because they know that "democracy" (their ideal political system) is controlled not by nobility, the courageous, or those who have a sense of self-preservation for their own people — but entirely by the wielder of propaganda. They cynically and without conscience manipulate the masses into becoming their compliant slaves, just as we saw them do during COVID with their lies about shots and their infiltration of all emergency procedures — lies which corralled the weak into all doing the same exact thing. If you believe that interrupting this kind of a cynical monopoly on propaganda is a suppression of "free speech", then you may merely be reading history as told by Bolsheviks.
Seb Member	Tue Feb 18 02:00:41 Sam: So why is it that type companies that consistently argue against "overregulation ' in workplace safety tend to be the ones with more avoidable workplace injuries? The sad truth is Sams in those co's will invariably seek to go back towards 1910 attitudes of employees as disposable consumables if regulation is not in place. Karen: A more solid argument. But this is what you are seeing in the US: loud calls to permit increasingly loud and aggressive demonisation of out-groups as "freedom of speech" coupled with increasing attempts to silence criticism of the govt, or even just failure to align through threats, coercion and leveraging a mix of state and corporate power.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Feb 18 02:27:53 murder "You and your family have a life worth living thanks solely to progressives." You know what else we solely have progressives to thank for? The energy crisis we are in, that bombs are going off outside peoples houses *every day* and that parts of this country and continent are run over by Muslims. Progressives systematically downgrade, destroy and then deny it was their fault, WE NEED TO RAISE TAXES! But I think you should absolutely celebrate that you won the lottery with me and my family. You can keep playing the lottery and downgrade your country or come up with a better way. Whatever you do, "you are an immigrant" is not an argument to anything I am saying. You guys need to go back to the drawing board, you have already lost this fight and you have lost the youth. How much more?
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Feb 18 02:36:34 [sebfaggot's lies fixed]: "But this is what you are seeing in the [West at large under "sustainability"]: loud calls to permit increasingly loud and aggressive demonisation of out-groups as "freedom of speech" coupled with increasing attempts to silence criticism of the govt, or even just failure to align through threats, coercion and leveraging a mix of state and corporate power." The absolute projection here! lol The simple reality is that government and corporations mass-merged *internationally* (across the entire West) under the model of "sustainability", and it is this explicitly left-wing-coded governance model which uses "demonisation of out-groups" to stifle free speech and silence threats to the global totalitarian Regime. Their explicit "out-groups" are populists, the right, nationalists, and any Western-ethnicity group which opposes its annihilation and homogenization under the globalist genetic slave caste (totalitarians are anti-White, working towards Kalergi's "race of the future"). The global totalitarian Bolsheviks explicitly used "protected groups", "hate speech", and other Bolshevik censorship methods to make sure that governance policies which it siphoned *trillions* into protecting and effecting would control the Overton Window in a left-ward fashion — facilitating the slave revolt. Meanwhile, delusional leftists still believe that they are the "underdogs". Even as this totalitarian scheme leverages all the power that it has *stolen* from the West to control corporations, energy, food, asset managers, and governance; delusional leftists still believe that those same corporations are recording "record profits". This seeming contradiction is because those corporations are being artificially subsidized by Regime theft, and the totalitarian Regime needs them to work on even more razor-thin margins so that the Regime's monumental losses under the sustainability pyramid-scheme can be hidden for just a bit longer before it can initiate mass-famines and genocides. Similarly, delusional leftists weep for their "protected classes", when these "protected classes" are themselves artificially propped up using the stolen wealth of the West. You could look internationally to see the artificial propping-up of slave nations under BRICS+ as well as Ukraine and Israel (money-laundering operations and nations being built as the homes of Master-enslavers). You could look locally as well, seeing the millions of dollars siphoned into chemical and surgical emasculation of "trans" people — who are most often White people that the Regime is selecting out of the gene pool as part of its malicious and cynical genocide. Bolsheviks want you to pretend that these "out-groups" are the sad result of "othering" by the right, whereas Bolsheviks themselves *created* these out-groups to generate resentment and facilitate the West's destruction. "[Why are you so mean to these groups that we manufactured to hate you and to want you dead? Why are you such a meany head?]" Again, I ask that people look at sebbish inversions and deceptions and realize that these same jewish Bolshevik strategies have been used previously to destroy nations. They use overt totalitarian ideologies such as a crushing of free speech, disarmament, and "othering" and then pretend that it was their *victims* whom they targeted for genocide who were the "real" totalitarians. When sebfaggot calls my want for free nations which independently effect their own interests "totalitarian", his projection is pathetic and transparent, but scale his sick logic to the would-be victors: if Bolsheviks write the history books, they will call the *right* the "totalitarians" — for *resisting* the left's own totalitarianism! That is how their sick minds work. I keep citing 1984 as an example. Way too many people think that was about "Hitler". It was about Bolsheviks. Why do people suppose propaganda has so thoroughly misdirected this meaning among the minds of the masses? Totalitarian Regime propagandists have the world fearing "Nazis" while Bolsheviks kill the West. Why does jewish-owned Hollywood have so much to say about "Nazis" and so little to say about Bolsheviks? Why are so many ignorant of what happens when the left fails to be checked in its totalitarian impulses?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Feb 18 02:57:40 "But this is what you are seeing in the US: loud calls to permit increasingly loud and aggressive demonisation of out-groups as "freedom of speech" coupled with increasing attempts to silence criticism of the govt, or even just failure to align through threats, coercion and leveraging a mix of state and corporate power." I am speechless, but not surprised. Having spent way too many hours debating this man, or what he thought was debating, I know that he will say anything and rewrite everything. This is part of a game for him, nothing he proscribes affects him one way or another. Punishment for his kind in a truly just world would be severe.
kargen Member	Tue Feb 18 16:02:45 Cherub here is a link to the Reichstag Fire decree. Educate yourself by reading it. http://ghdi.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=2325
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