Utopia Talk - Politics - Trump whitewashing Russian aggression

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Trump whitewashing Russian aggression

murder
Member Thu Feb 20 17:10:35
US resisting including reference to ‘Russian aggression’ in G7 Ukraine anniversary statement

A diplomatic back-and-forth is underway among Group of Seven members over a joint statement marking the third anniversary of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, with the United States resisting a reference to “Russian aggression” in the document.

The dispute, described by two Western officials familiar with the matter, reflects the larger shift in approach from the White House to the conflict. President Donald Trump has blamed the war on Ukraine, and likened its wartime president to a “dictator.”

That stands in stark contrast to how the Biden administration, along with its allies in the G7, have described the war over the last three years.

The group is set to convene virtually next week around Monday’s anniversary of the invasion, but resistance from Washington over pinning blame on Russia for the conflict is threatening Western resolve as the war enters its fourth year.

“Russian aggression” has been used in G7 statements dating back to the start of the conflict, as has the descriptor of the conflict as an “illegal war of aggression.” The bloc has acted as something of a steering committee for marshaling assistance to Kyiv.

Now, envoys from Washington have voiced concern over how the war is framed in the document, the officials said. Trump has also suggested Russia be allowed to rejoin the G7 after it was ejected for annexing Crimea in 2014.

The officials said the US was resisting language assigning blame on Russia for the war, but that other nations in the group have been adamant that any softening of the statement would amount to a win for Moscow.

“The talks are still happening,” one of the officials said, “but there is a lot of concern at equivocating who is responsible for the war.”

The Financial Times first reported on the continued talks.

The White House did not respond to a request for comment, but in a press briefing Thursday, US national security adviser Mike Waltz said the president remained angry at Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelensky, a day after he accused him of being a dictator.

“President Trump is obviously very frustrated right now with President Zelenskyy,” he said. “The fact that he hasn’t come to the table, that he hasn’t been willing to take this opportunity that we have offered – I think he eventually will get to that point, and I hope so very quickly. But President Trump, as we made clear to our Russian counterparts and I want to make clear today, he’s focused on stopping the fighting and moving forward.”

Trump has insisted on multiple occasions this week that it is Ukraine, not Russia, that is responsible for the conflict.

“Think of it, a modestly successful comedian, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, talked the United States of America into spending $350 Billion Dollars, to go into a War that couldn’t be won,” he wrote on social media Wednesday.

Other Western leaders have quickly distanced themselves from that sentiment. French President Emmanuel Macron, who will meet Trump at the White House on Monday, said he would warn his US counterpart “not to be weak in the face” of Putin.

“I know Donald Trump. For four years, we were [both] in charge already during my first term. So he is someone I respect, who I believe respects me,” Macron said.

“I’m going to say to [Trump], ‘Deep down you can’t be weak in the face of Putin, it’s not you, it’s not your trademark,” the French president continued.

He said later that he’d spoken to Zelensky for a second day in a row to coordinate his upcoming visit to Washington.

In Kyiv on Thursday, Trump’s envoy to Russia and Ukraine, Gen. Keith Kellogg, met with Zelensky to discuss US-led efforts to end the war. He was there, in part, to convince Zelensky to agree to American proposals that would provide the US mineral revenues from Ukraine as payment for past assistance.

Zelensky’s refusal to accept the plan angered the White House. Trump’s aides accused the Ukrainian leader of not being appreciative enough for American support.

“There needs to be a deep appreciation for what the American people, what the American taxpayer, what President Trump did in his first term, and what we’ve done since,” Waltz said. “So some of the rhetoric coming out of Kyiv, frankly, and insults to President Trump, were unacceptable.”

http://www...niversary-statement/index.html

murder
Member Thu Feb 20 17:12:13

"It's always RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!"

I bet Trump lets Putin rub his belly.

Rugian
Member Thu Feb 20 17:24:03
What aggression? The dictator Zelenskyy is responsible for starting the war.

Seb
Member Thu Feb 20 17:26:27
Rugian:

You really don't have any self respect so you?

Rugian
Member Thu Feb 20 17:32:27
Seb

You told us in no uncertain terms that America could go fuck itself and that your dream is to facilitate China's rise as a new global superpower.

It would take not having any self respect to still stand with you after that.

Sam Adams
Member Thu Feb 20 19:00:50
Trump just makes up the most retarded shit.

Sort of like seb.

AHA

seb are you trumps british alter ego?

tumbleweed
the wanderer Thu Feb 20 19:03:25
nobody's tougher on Russia than Trump... (according to him & his propagandists)

the most embarrassing figure in US history

Sam Adams
Member Thu Feb 20 19:14:26
Nah, its still more embarrassing to lose to trump rather than be trump.

murder
Member Thu Feb 20 19:35:09

"You really don't have any self respect so you?"

They will personally march jews to the gas chambers before they admit to getting taken in by the worst and dumbest among them.

williamthebastard
Member Thu Feb 20 19:51:06
"It's always RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!"

I bet Trump lets Putin rub his belly."

Youve got who is the dominatrix backwards. Putin whacks that whip and Trump begs to rub his belly.

murder
Member Thu Feb 20 20:13:56

I don't know what kind of sick shit you're into, but I meant that Trump is Putin's dog.

Seb
Member Fri Feb 21 05:39:04
Rugian:

Not my dream, just real politik.

If the US is going to side with Russia and threaten us and our allies, which it is, then working with China (like Nixon did) to contain that threat is a necessary if undesirable move.

Where you lack self respect is your willingness to abase yourself and subordinate your reason to someone as pathetic as Donald Trump. You decided to let a fucking reality TV star be your cult leader. It's sad.

Seb
Member Fri Feb 21 05:43:16
Sam:

And you are in some ways sadder.

You know that Trump is a disaster, but you comfort yourself by trying to pretend others have it worse.

You are like those Russians that knew Putin or the Soviets were a disaster for Russia but coped by insisting that it was no different in the west.

You voted for Trump no doubt, and kid yourself that Kamela was more stupid. She's certainly not a particularly impressive politician, but she was clearly far superior to Trump on any sensible measure and the US will be far worse off for having made the wrong choice.

I think you know this too.

The truth is you just fear and loathe blanks and women, more than you love your country.

Seb
Member Fri Feb 21 05:44:56
Murder:

People tend to have affection for their dogs.

Trump is more like a farm animal.

Forwyn
Member Fri Feb 21 09:52:50
Muh Russia! We love nationalist coups and hate self-determination!

williamthebastard
Member Fri Feb 21 10:13:47
The weird thing about sam adams trying to distance himself now and then from Trump is that they are exactly the same kind of person, sam oddams just has no money or power.

Sam Adams
Member Fri Feb 21 10:36:59
"was clearly far superior to Trump on any sensible measure"

A british racist would think that i'm sure, but since you are ok with the butchering of jews and deny the most basics of genetics i think we can all just pass over what you think is sensible.

In reality, both have downright terrible policies mixed with some better ones. Both are an embarrassing indication of the political polarization of the US and the general declining competence of the entire world. I dont know which one would have been worse... both suck.

Seb
Member Fri Feb 21 11:43:16
Sam:

Lol. Ok. Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify why you let Trump sell your country out to China and Russia.

Seb
Member Fri Feb 21 11:46:49
The thing is Sam, the ultimate cause of this polarisation is you, and your mentality.

You think of yourself as a technocratic elite, but you are an example of the weak mindedness that flows from decadence, intellectual laziness and hubris. The fact you can't even recognise and accept accountability is the root of the problem America faces.

When enough of the country are Sam's, you get Trump.

jergul
large member Fri Feb 21 12:23:00
Thing is, a change in Russian policy is real politics smart. If the goal is to contain china and attempts to install a pro western regime in Russia futile, then a different approach is needed to keep Sino-Russian relations from consolidating.

Russia can also be used to contain and drain the US' other global competitor, the EU.

So yah, we are being played.

Sam Adams
Member Fri Feb 21 12:46:21
Seb you are constantly on the far left bandwagon. Theres hardlt an issue they take you dont immediately agree with, from hamas propaganda to beating up women in the name of equity and a dozen other things no matter how retarded. You cant think for yourself... you represent your side with religious fervor, evidence be damned.

You got us into this mess, well you and 50 million other left wing retards and a similar number of the equivalent rightists.

What we need, and should always have had, is deciding on the righteousness of each issue, rather than the righteousness of the party.

Rugian
Member Fri Feb 21 12:52:58
Keep in mind that Seb was the same person saying that the police should arrest people on the street who are consensually touching each other during COVID.

The fact that Trump doesn't subscribe to insane bullshit like that is what, in Seb's eyes, makes him a bad president.

As a personality, yes Trump leaves a lot to be desired. As a president carrying out policies for the good of the country, he is objectively better than Kamala.

(Also, Kamala is objectively an idiot as well - just not the "send out rage-inducing tweets at 3 in the morning" kind of idiot)

obaminated
Member Fri Feb 21 12:56:37
But you know kamala would be a good fuck. She got that booty.

Rugian
Member Fri Feb 21 13:18:49
DEM TATTIES TOO

http://www...liams-and-news-photo/155537121

Seb
Member Fri Feb 21 16:27:37
Jergul:

A dumb guys idea of smart politics.

You let China play the arbitrator between Europe and Russia. They get Russia as a client state, and Europe has to play nice with them to get them to help keep Russia on a leash. And if you egregiously betray Europe by threatening it, then China looks a reasonable partner to contain the US.

Its absolutely the most derpy geopolitical move.

Seb
Member Fri Feb 21 16:29:49
Sam:

Are you seriously going to try and convince me that I hold positions I don't hold?

Who are you trying to convince here? Rugian? Obaminated? Yourself?

These are comfort blankets too are trying yourself to explain how you got to this strange position: it's all someone else's fault.

It's really quite sad. Take some agency. Be an adult.

Seb
Member Fri Feb 21 16:30:30
Rugian:

Yes please, keep it in your mind, where it originated.

Seb
Member Fri Feb 21 16:31:28
Obaminated:

The irony being that instead you chose to *get* fucked by a reality TV star instead.

jergul
large member Fri Feb 21 20:24:53
Seb
It works swell for as long as there is nothing for China to arbitrate. Arbitrate assumes a join commitment to finding solutions after all and we have none of that now, nor for the forseeable future.

Sam Adams
Member Fri Feb 21 21:45:21
Ok seb, name a far left position you dont take.

Sam Adams
Member Fri Feb 21 21:45:55
"then China looks a reasonable partner to contain the US."

Oh ya you take such reasonable positions lmfao

jergul
large member Fri Feb 21 22:33:04
"we may be bad, but the alternative is worse"

A pillar of US power projection.

Thing is, Trump is begging the question "is the alternative really worse?"

williamthebastard
Member Fri Feb 21 22:52:10
Oddams doesnt have a clue what far left means since his understanding of the centre is comically skewed towards fascism. Strictly speaking, someone who is far right is someone who is further right than Burke - and Burke would be considered a leftist by the Oddams world. Someone who is far left would be someone who is left of Marx and Oddams has never even heard of someone to the left of Marx, let alone have the slightest clue what Marxist ideology actually is outside of Qanon lalaland.

williamthebastard
Member Fri Feb 21 22:54:47
Just the fact that anyone who supports consumerism is automatically to the right of Marx and disqualifies 99% of the worlds population as being further left than the standard bearer and father of leftwing politics.

williamthebastard
Member Fri Feb 21 22:56:06
And anyone who supports racism and colonialism, the lifeblood of Oddams, is further right than Burke, the standard bearer and father of rightwing politics.

Seb
Member Sat Feb 22 01:19:03
Sam:

Dekulakization.

Moron.

Seb
Member Sat Feb 22 01:20:21
Sam:

"Oh ya you take such reasonable positions lmfao"

Good enough for Kissinger, it's good enough for me.

Seb
Member Sat Feb 22 01:20:55
"oh noes, Seb is so left wing, like Nixon"

show deleted posts

murder Member	Thu Feb 20 17:10:35 US resisting including reference to ‘Russian aggression’ in G7 Ukraine anniversary statement A diplomatic back-and-forth is underway among Group of Seven members over a joint statement marking the third anniversary of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, with the United States resisting a reference to “Russian aggression” in the document. The dispute, described by two Western officials familiar with the matter, reflects the larger shift in approach from the White House to the conflict. President Donald Trump has blamed the war on Ukraine, and likened its wartime president to a “dictator.” That stands in stark contrast to how the Biden administration, along with its allies in the G7, have described the war over the last three years. The group is set to convene virtually next week around Monday’s anniversary of the invasion, but resistance from Washington over pinning blame on Russia for the conflict is threatening Western resolve as the war enters its fourth year. “Russian aggression” has been used in G7 statements dating back to the start of the conflict, as has the descriptor of the conflict as an “illegal war of aggression.” The bloc has acted as something of a steering committee for marshaling assistance to Kyiv. Now, envoys from Washington have voiced concern over how the war is framed in the document, the officials said. Trump has also suggested Russia be allowed to rejoin the G7 after it was ejected for annexing Crimea in 2014. The officials said the US was resisting language assigning blame on Russia for the war, but that other nations in the group have been adamant that any softening of the statement would amount to a win for Moscow. “The talks are still happening,” one of the officials said, “but there is a lot of concern at equivocating who is responsible for the war.” The Financial Times first reported on the continued talks. The White House did not respond to a request for comment, but in a press briefing Thursday, US national security adviser Mike Waltz said the president remained angry at Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelensky, a day after he accused him of being a dictator. “President Trump is obviously very frustrated right now with President Zelenskyy,” he said. “The fact that he hasn’t come to the table, that he hasn’t been willing to take this opportunity that we have offered – I think he eventually will get to that point, and I hope so very quickly. But President Trump, as we made clear to our Russian counterparts and I want to make clear today, he’s focused on stopping the fighting and moving forward.” Trump has insisted on multiple occasions this week that it is Ukraine, not Russia, that is responsible for the conflict. “Think of it, a modestly successful comedian, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, talked the United States of America into spending $350 Billion Dollars, to go into a War that couldn’t be won,” he wrote on social media Wednesday. Other Western leaders have quickly distanced themselves from that sentiment. French President Emmanuel Macron, who will meet Trump at the White House on Monday, said he would warn his US counterpart “not to be weak in the face” of Putin. “I know Donald Trump. For four years, we were [both] in charge already during my first term. So he is someone I respect, who I believe respects me,” Macron said. “I’m going to say to [Trump], ‘Deep down you can’t be weak in the face of Putin, it’s not you, it’s not your trademark,” the French president continued. He said later that he’d spoken to Zelensky for a second day in a row to coordinate his upcoming visit to Washington. In Kyiv on Thursday, Trump’s envoy to Russia and Ukraine, Gen. Keith Kellogg, met with Zelensky to discuss US-led efforts to end the war. He was there, in part, to convince Zelensky to agree to American proposals that would provide the US mineral revenues from Ukraine as payment for past assistance. Zelensky’s refusal to accept the plan angered the White House. Trump’s aides accused the Ukrainian leader of not being appreciative enough for American support. “There needs to be a deep appreciation for what the American people, what the American taxpayer, what President Trump did in his first term, and what we’ve done since,” Waltz said. “So some of the rhetoric coming out of Kyiv, frankly, and insults to President Trump, were unacceptable.” http://www...niversary-statement/index.html
murder Member	Thu Feb 20 17:12:13 "It's always RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!" I bet Trump lets Putin rub his belly.
Rugian Member	Thu Feb 20 17:24:03 What aggression? The dictator Zelenskyy is responsible for starting the war.
Seb Member	Thu Feb 20 17:26:27 Rugian: You really don't have any self respect so you?
Rugian Member	Thu Feb 20 17:32:27 Seb You told us in no uncertain terms that America could go fuck itself and that your dream is to facilitate China's rise as a new global superpower. It would take not having any self respect to still stand with you after that.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Feb 20 19:00:50 Trump just makes up the most retarded shit. Sort of like seb. AHA seb are you trumps british alter ego?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Feb 20 19:03:25 nobody's tougher on Russia than Trump... (according to him & his propagandists) the most embarrassing figure in US history
Sam Adams Member	Thu Feb 20 19:14:26 Nah, its still more embarrassing to lose to trump rather than be trump.
murder Member	Thu Feb 20 19:35:09 "You really don't have any self respect so you?" They will personally march jews to the gas chambers before they admit to getting taken in by the worst and dumbest among them.
williamthebastard Member	Thu Feb 20 19:51:06 "It's always RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!" I bet Trump lets Putin rub his belly." Youve got who is the dominatrix backwards. Putin whacks that whip and Trump begs to rub his belly.
murder Member	Thu Feb 20 20:13:56 I don't know what kind of sick shit you're into, but I meant that Trump is Putin's dog.
Seb Member	Fri Feb 21 05:39:04 Rugian: Not my dream, just real politik. If the US is going to side with Russia and threaten us and our allies, which it is, then working with China (like Nixon did) to contain that threat is a necessary if undesirable move. Where you lack self respect is your willingness to abase yourself and subordinate your reason to someone as pathetic as Donald Trump. You decided to let a fucking reality TV star be your cult leader. It's sad.
Seb Member	Fri Feb 21 05:43:16 Sam: And you are in some ways sadder. You know that Trump is a disaster, but you comfort yourself by trying to pretend others have it worse. You are like those Russians that knew Putin or the Soviets were a disaster for Russia but coped by insisting that it was no different in the west. You voted for Trump no doubt, and kid yourself that Kamela was more stupid. She's certainly not a particularly impressive politician, but she was clearly far superior to Trump on any sensible measure and the US will be far worse off for having made the wrong choice. I think you know this too. The truth is you just fear and loathe blanks and women, more than you love your country.
Seb Member	Fri Feb 21 05:44:56 Murder: People tend to have affection for their dogs. Trump is more like a farm animal.
Forwyn Member	Fri Feb 21 09:52:50 Muh Russia! We love nationalist coups and hate self-determination!
williamthebastard Member	Fri Feb 21 10:13:47 The weird thing about sam adams trying to distance himself now and then from Trump is that they are exactly the same kind of person, sam oddams just has no money or power.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Feb 21 10:36:59 "was clearly far superior to Trump on any sensible measure" A british racist would think that i'm sure, but since you are ok with the butchering of jews and deny the most basics of genetics i think we can all just pass over what you think is sensible. In reality, both have downright terrible policies mixed with some better ones. Both are an embarrassing indication of the political polarization of the US and the general declining competence of the entire world. I dont know which one would have been worse... both suck.
Seb Member	Fri Feb 21 11:43:16 Sam: Lol. Ok. Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify why you let Trump sell your country out to China and Russia.
Seb Member	Fri Feb 21 11:46:49 The thing is Sam, the ultimate cause of this polarisation is you, and your mentality. You think of yourself as a technocratic elite, but you are an example of the weak mindedness that flows from decadence, intellectual laziness and hubris. The fact you can't even recognise and accept accountability is the root of the problem America faces. When enough of the country are Sam's, you get Trump.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 12:23:00 Thing is, a change in Russian policy is real politics smart. If the goal is to contain china and attempts to install a pro western regime in Russia futile, then a different approach is needed to keep Sino-Russian relations from consolidating. Russia can also be used to contain and drain the US' other global competitor, the EU. So yah, we are being played.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Feb 21 12:46:21 Seb you are constantly on the far left bandwagon. Theres hardlt an issue they take you dont immediately agree with, from hamas propaganda to beating up women in the name of equity and a dozen other things no matter how retarded. You cant think for yourself... you represent your side with religious fervor, evidence be damned. You got us into this mess, well you and 50 million other left wing retards and a similar number of the equivalent rightists. What we need, and should always have had, is deciding on the righteousness of each issue, rather than the righteousness of the party.
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 21 12:52:58 Keep in mind that Seb was the same person saying that the police should arrest people on the street who are consensually touching each other during COVID. The fact that Trump doesn't subscribe to insane bullshit like that is what, in Seb's eyes, makes him a bad president. As a personality, yes Trump leaves a lot to be desired. As a president carrying out policies for the good of the country, he is objectively better than Kamala. (Also, Kamala is objectively an idiot as well - just not the "send out rage-inducing tweets at 3 in the morning" kind of idiot)
obaminated Member	Fri Feb 21 12:56:37 But you know kamala would be a good fuck. She got that booty.
Rugian Member	Fri Feb 21 13:18:49 DEM TATTIES TOO http://www...liams-and-news-photo/155537121
Seb Member	Fri Feb 21 16:27:37 Jergul: A dumb guys idea of smart politics. You let China play the arbitrator between Europe and Russia. They get Russia as a client state, and Europe has to play nice with them to get them to help keep Russia on a leash. And if you egregiously betray Europe by threatening it, then China looks a reasonable partner to contain the US. Its absolutely the most derpy geopolitical move.
Seb Member	Fri Feb 21 16:29:49 Sam: Are you seriously going to try and convince me that I hold positions I don't hold? Who are you trying to convince here? Rugian? Obaminated? Yourself? These are comfort blankets too are trying yourself to explain how you got to this strange position: it's all someone else's fault. It's really quite sad. Take some agency. Be an adult.
Seb Member	Fri Feb 21 16:30:30 Rugian: Yes please, keep it in your mind, where it originated.
Seb Member	Fri Feb 21 16:31:28 Obaminated: The irony being that instead you chose to get fucked by a reality TV star instead.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 20:24:53 Seb It works swell for as long as there is nothing for China to arbitrate. Arbitrate assumes a join commitment to finding solutions after all and we have none of that now, nor for the forseeable future.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Feb 21 21:45:21 Ok seb, name a far left position you dont take.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Feb 21 21:45:55 "then China looks a reasonable partner to contain the US." Oh ya you take such reasonable positions lmfao
jergul large member	Fri Feb 21 22:33:04 "we may be bad, but the alternative is worse" A pillar of US power projection. Thing is, Trump is begging the question "is the alternative really worse?"
williamthebastard Member	Fri Feb 21 22:52:10 Oddams doesnt have a clue what far left means since his understanding of the centre is comically skewed towards fascism. Strictly speaking, someone who is far right is someone who is further right than Burke - and Burke would be considered a leftist by the Oddams world. Someone who is far left would be someone who is left of Marx and Oddams has never even heard of someone to the left of Marx, let alone have the slightest clue what Marxist ideology actually is outside of Qanon lalaland.
williamthebastard Member	Fri Feb 21 22:54:47 Just the fact that anyone who supports consumerism is automatically to the right of Marx and disqualifies 99% of the worlds population as being further left than the standard bearer and father of leftwing politics.
williamthebastard Member	Fri Feb 21 22:56:06 And anyone who supports racism and colonialism, the lifeblood of Oddams, is further right than Burke, the standard bearer and father of rightwing politics.
Seb Member	Sat Feb 22 01:19:03 Sam: Dekulakization. Moron.
Seb Member	Sat Feb 22 01:20:21 Sam: "Oh ya you take such reasonable positions lmfao" Good enough for Kissinger, it's good enough for me.
Seb Member	Sat Feb 22 01:20:55 "oh noes, Seb is so left wing, like Nixon"
	show deleted posts

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