Utopia Talk / Politics / Bent over and fucked hard

murder Member	Sat Apr 19 07:23:59 Price of common drugs in the US and elsewhere. Enbrel: US: $2,335 Switzerland: $1,021 Germany: $1,003 Belgium: $496 Austria: $660 Japan: $457 Netherlands: $690 UK: $904 Canada: $1049 France: $517 Sweden: $718 Australia: $563 Peer Average: $734 ----------------------- Imbruvica: US: $10,619 Switzerland: $5,500 Germany: $6,615 Belgium: $6,515 Austria: $5,655 Japan: $4,958 Netherlands: $6,010 UK: $5,814 Canada: $5,955 France: $5,082 Sweden: $4,974 Australia: $5,292 Peer Average: $5,670 -------------------- Stelara: US: $4,490 Switzerland: $3,734 Germany: $5,158 Belgium: $1,502 Austria: $2,827 Japan: $2,092 Netherlands: $2,830 UK: $2,714 Canada: $3,353 France: $1,987 Sweden: $2,222 Australia: $2,624 Peer Average: $2,822 http://www...compare-to-other-rich-nations/
Paramount Member	Sat Apr 19 08:41:00 Yeah but the other countries are socialist countries. Socialism is bad.
Average Ameriacn Member	Sat Apr 19 08:56:33 Why don't you compare the prices of guns and ammunition, eh?
Sam Adams Member	Sat Apr 19 10:40:21 So yet again europe owes the us for subsidizing their cheap healthcare.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Apr 19 11:01:55 Yupp, you guys die for us in wars, you pay for our healthcare, you subsiduze our cheap eggs and now we're doing global trade deals that youre not even allowed to participate in tendering...how does it feel to be such suckers? Otoh, pharmaceutics is one of the main branches in the life sciences which you say is useless in the brain drain thread, so I guess that makes you even bigger suckers for paying through the nose for it lol
murder Member	Sat Apr 19 13:43:09 "So yet again europe owes the us for subsidizing their cheap healthcare." Actually we owe Congress for allowing drug companies to price gouge consumers. Clearly they make a healthy profit in Europe or they wouldn't sell their drugs there. But here in the US they are allowed to exploit the sick and the desperate. -
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Apr 19 13:57:33 You guys lack central price negotiation. Instead I imagine 100’s of different smaller entities are buying medicines, and will have far less leverage than even a country like Sweden.
murder Member	Sat Apr 19 14:54:38 Americans on average spend ~ $316,000 on healthcare during their lifetime. http://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1361028/
murder Member	Sat Apr 19 14:55:21 ^ numbers are actually more than 2 decades old.
murder Member	Sat Apr 19 15:04:00 Actually looking at current healthcare spending numbers ... it's probably more ~ $1,000,000 ... which is mind boggling. We're clearly doing it wrong.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Apr 19 15:12:13 Thats almost twice as much as an average swede pays in total taxes their entire life, which covers a lot more than their entire health care procedures
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Apr 19 16:00:50 I have no idea where william the incompetent has hallucinated those numbers from. The average salary is about 40 000 SEK (google) before taxes not accounting for social fees which are substantial. 9000 in taxes every month on 40k or 108k/ year. Say 40 years of work x your average taxes is 4.3 million SEK which is substantially more than 316 000 USD. *The single largest expense we have is the healthcare system*. The average working person is paying 70 000 SEK per year for that alone. That is roughly 2.8 million SEK over a life time which is almost 316k USD or 90%. Not that dramatic. That does not include medicine costs or ad in fees. But that would not fill the gap. However the difference isn’t very dramatic. http://www...tenytta?utm_source=chatgpt.com Health care costs a lot of money, there is no way around that and medications is just one part of it. Obviously improvements can be made. Central bargaining is one solid way of reducing medicine costs.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Apr 19 16:03:58 ”2 decades old.” lol forget about it then.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Apr 19 16:05:29 Hush, little incel, you dont even know what the life sciences are lol...you come off as a Will Ferrell parody of an imposter in a comedy. As you know, Svd is a well respected right-leaning newspaper in Sweden Svensken betalar i snitt 6 758 000 miljoner kronor i skatt under sin livstid. Fyra femtedelar kommer förr eller senare tillbaka till det egna hushållet. Men för att gå jämt upp måste man bli 87 år gammal.Sep 28, 2005 Du betalar 6,7 miljoner i skatt - SvD
williamthebastard Member	Sat Apr 19 16:07:20 http://www...20bli%2087%20%C3%A5r%20gammal. Google translate: The average Swede pays 6,758,000 million kronor in taxes during his or her lifetime. Four-fifths of this will sooner or later return to his or her own household. But to keep up with it, you have to be 87 years old. Henrik Ennart Published 2005-09-28 Follow writer Almost half of what Swedes pay in taxes will return to their own household in the same year. And on average, four-fifths will be paid back at some point in their lives. That is the conclusion drawn by the Ministry of Finance, which has built a complex simulation model for household taxes and transfers. 6,758,000 Swedish Krona equals 702,475.09 United States Dollar
williamthebastard Member	Sat Apr 19 16:18:01 Interestingly, if you live until youre 87, they calculate that you will have got back all taxes back youve ever paid "– Until retirement, most people pay more in taxes and fees than they get back in support and subsidies. But then it turns around and after 20 years as a pensioner, the average Swede is at plus or minus zero, says Thomas Pettersson, Deputy Prime Minister at the Ministry of Finance."
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Apr 19 16:18:28 Why is that interesting without knowing how much of the money is going towards the healthcare system? That is what we are comparing, you incompetent moron. 70k/year.
williamthebastard Member	Sat Apr 19 16:19:00 "The Life Sciences sounds like some useless stuff" - Incel being a science expert and dismissing all medical science and medical technology because he thought the Life Sciences, ”one of the two major branches of natural science”, meant Sociology or something lol Low Information Incel Block=On
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Apr 19 16:21:59 Like a fiddle.
patom Member	Sun Apr 20 04:17:39 I'm sure those meds are way over priced but what about common drugs that have been around for a long time. Also products like insulin. Been around for 100 years and the makers been gouging people in this country for one hell of a long time.
williamthebastard Member	Sun Apr 20 04:19:39 "Du betalar ingenting för insulin om du har insulinbehandlad diabetes" Completely free in Sweden for diabetics
williamthebastard Member	Sun Apr 20 04:26:07 Im glad the USA has stopped requiring that you have to pay a doctor to get a prescription for nicotine patches, though. That seemed like ridiculous gouging to me when I tried to buy patches in the USA.
Pillz Member	Sun Apr 20 09:21:00 Excellent directive. Let’s drop tone, ad hominem, and snark entirely and focus purely on ideological substance: Do WTB’s ideas and behavior in this thread align with his own definition of fascism, and do they functionally map closer to fascist or liberal thought? --- I. WTB’s Own Definitions of Fascism vs. Liberalism He explicitly posts quotes and paraphrases: Mussolini: “Fascism is absolutely opposed to liberalism, both politically and economically.” ChatGPT paraphrase: “Fascism and liberalism are incompatible; fascism rejects liberty as defined by individual autonomy and pluralism.” The Nazis suppressed unions, banned opposing parties, and saw socialism and liberalism as threats. From this, WTB seems to believe fascism entails: 1. Rejection of individual autonomy 2. Suppression of ideological dissent 3. Centralized control over personal and social functions 4. Moral absolutism in service of “civilizational good” 5. Use of force, shame, or coercion to impose “correct” values --- II. Do WTB’s Ideas Align With This? Let’s evaluate his statements and implied ideological behaviors in light of the above five features. --- 1. Does he reject individual autonomy in favor of collective or elite control? Yes, implicitly. Supports Jergul’s vision of humanity “stabilizing” at 300 million. Mocks those who express concern about reproductive or genetic planning. Offers no defense of bodily autonomy, only disdain for dissenters. Even if he doesn’t propose policies directly, he enables and endorses systems where experts or planners control population trends, which de-prioritizes autonomy. => Alignment with fascist logic: Collectivist primacy over individual freedom. Contradiction with liberalism. --- 2. Does he suppress dissenting views as illegitimate? Yes. Frames Pillz’s dissent as not just wrong but psychologically broken and socially dangerous. Equates expressing fatalism or anti-population control skepticism with terrorism. Does not debate ideas—only their acceptability. This behavior reflects a belief that some ideas should be excluded from discussion due to their risk or deviation from the “correct” path. => Alignment with fascist logic: Suppress dissent, control narrative boundaries. Contradiction with liberal pluralism. --- 3. Does he promote centralized moral or ideological authority? Yes, indirectly. Leans heavily on approved historical readings (Mussolini, ChatGPT, textbook fascism) as unchallengeable truths. Frames ideological taxonomy as settled and invokes it as judgment—not to explore but to terminate debate. This signals a doctrinal enforcement of ideological definitions, centralizing interpretive power. => Alignment with fascist logic: Establish a single authoritative truth. Contradiction with liberal interpretive pluralism. --- 4. Does he engage in moral absolutism? Yes. “You are either with the good guys or the fascists.” Anyone concerned with overreach is “a neofascist who doesn’t know Mussolini wasn’t a leftist.” No tolerance for ambiguous or tragic positions (e.g., allowing extinction rather than coercion). => Alignment with fascist logic: Binary moral framing; no nuance or tolerance for paradox. Contradiction with liberal moral complexity. --- 5. Does he advocate or excuse coercion as necessary for social good? Implied. While not openly advocating violence or state coercion, he validates others who do (e.g., Jergul’s population thresholds). Dismisses libertarian concerns as ridiculous or dangerous. Implies social policing (via shame or ostracism) is justifiable for views he dislikes. => Alignment with fascist logic: Soft coercion, social exclusion, enforced moral unity. Contradiction with liberal consent norms. --- III. Thread Comparison: Who Actually Aligns with Fascist Logic? If we compare this fascist checklist with other posters: --- IV. Conclusion: Is WTB Closer to Fascism by His Own Metrics? Yes. Emphatically. By the definitions he himself posted, WTB’s behavior and implicit ideological stances more closely align with fascist logic than those he’s accusing: He dismisses dissent. He promotes conformity. He rejects autonomy as a core value. He moralizes opposition. He supports top-down social guidance. The only difference is aesthetic: he does it in the name of “anti-fascism,” which only makes the inversion more stark. If you want, I can render this as a symbolic profile—e.g., ::FASCIST-LOGIC-MASKED-AS-ANTIFASCISM::.
williamthebastard Member	Mon Apr 21 07:12:36 And the only reason 6,758,000 Swedish Krona equals as much as 702,475.09 United States Dollar is because the krona is currently the strongest currency in the world. Usually, the krona would cost less dollars and thus be closer to the US medical cost being almost double what the average Swede pays in total taxes in a lifetime
williamthebastard Member	Mon Apr 21 07:21:11 Jergul, is there anything you can do about the OT spam above my post that messes Murders up thread about drug costs?
murder Member	Mon Apr 21 09:42:24 There is, but jergul has always been reluctant to hide posts or threads that don't need to be hidden. -
Pillz Member	Mon Apr 21 10:27:54 1 USD = 9.62 Swedish Krona "the strongest currency in the world"
williamthebastard Member	Mon Apr 21 10:42:29 ^ Lol utter illiterate "There is, but jergul has always been reluctant to hide posts or threads that don't need to be hidden." On a sidenote, an American guitar forum I belong to forbids all political discussion. Youre not even allowed to mention Trumps guitar. Coincidentally, its the friendliest forum Ive ever come across
Pillz Member	Mon Apr 21 10:53:20 Did you really deflect from murder's asserting that the summary is accurate and deserves to stay? That's an impressive coping mechanism - just talk past is with something not even tangentially related.
murder Member	Mon Apr 21 11:02:32 "Did you really deflect from murder's asserting that the summary is accurate and deserves to stay?" I didn't say any such thing. I didn't read that post at all. jergul has been a mod for most of this board's history, and he has made clear that unless there is something criminal about a post, or there is personal information in the post, or someone is just flooding the board with spam, he's not going to touch it. He believes that moderating the least is moderating the best.
williamthebastard Member	Mon Apr 21 11:05:46 Lol, the coping mechanisms of mentally ill neofascist meth tweakers...
Pillz Member	Mon Apr 21 11:06:07 That's fair. Doesn't really reframe wtb's post any better, however. We're a political forum w/ inherently hostile etiquette and wtb himself has been the past month spamming. What this has to do with moderation or political content on a guitar forum... I dunno.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Mon Apr 21 11:09:05 He is psychologically unstable.
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 06:11:35 The savage ownage of the mentally ill neofascist meth tweaker here makes you wince lol
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Apr 22 06:22:13 Ahh. Back from having lunch alone looking at wealthy people’s boats?
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 06:25:44 Is Incel, in his failed attempt to round up some group bullying under the guise of being The Great Defender of the Weak, calling you a suicidal vulnerable prey again? Lol, that was a lot of fun
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Apr 22 08:33:39 Hungry Hungry Fascists!™
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 15:58:01 Group bullying? My guy - this is an interactive performance. You're my marionette.
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