Utopia Talk / Politics / If you are Black/African descent

williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 00:56:26 "If you are Black/African descent, Latino/Hispanic, Asian, or another underrepresented racial or ethnic minority participant, your participation helps." I'm supposed to translate that into Swedish. It's not possible to translate "black" without causing a scandal. "Black" is not an ethnicity. Its not scientifically useful. I'd immediately receive critique from the client with a request to rephrase it. Only in the USA do they use language like that.
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 01:05:19 It is called a colloquialism. You are a pathetic fake.
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 01:12:08 I'm gonna break this down for you: You translate text. That's called localization. Because you're localizing context across linguistic and cultural barriers while retaining the essence and meaning and context. In this case, you'd just omit the word black because it doesn't apply to the localization process.
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 01:14:09 Shhh neofascist junky
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 01:27:51 In the USA, if youre jamaican or nigerian, you belong in the same group...sigh
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 01:49:14 This is a common problem in the translation industry. Even if this was going to be used in the UK, it would still have to be "localized", as they call it, and "black" would have to be changed to something else with scientific relevance. Its always texts from the US that cause these problems.
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 01:49:15 Equally hard to fathom that if you're Scottish or Russian or polish or Italian or Australian you're considered white in America. The world we live in...
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Apr 22 01:52:42 Yeah because they all (Jamaican and Nigerian) are descendents of african lineages. You would translate this as “Afrikansk ursprung” and as Pillz said leave black out of it. We now have confirmation that WTB indeed is an incompetent translator. Who could have guessed? But that is all moot because the term ”svart” (black) is not a scadalous word in Sweden and used frequently in woke media and academia in the same way as it is everywhere else. Many prefer this over hyphenation.
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 01:59:51 If we do get a brain drain of life science researchers from the US, as predicted in the thread where Incel says that medical science is useless, they're going to have to learn to drop their unconscious racial bigotry that they pick up with their mothers milk from birth over there and get on board with the civilized world
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Apr 22 02:07:18 I understand it must be very difficult to be this incompetent.
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 02:08:20 Inb4 influx of 'blackness in sweden', 'black subcultural suppression in sweden', 'black and living in sweden' articles that will follow
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Apr 22 02:23:23 Do we need to? http://www.levandehistoria.se/fakta/rasism/antisvart-rasism This one is great because it is from the organization of Swedish communicators, it briefly goes through when it is ok and not ok to say black. William the incompetents example would fall in the OK basket. https://www.sverigeskommunikatorer.se/kunskapsbank/artiklar/far-man-saga-svart/
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 02:26:08 Oh that must be wrong though, wtb has worked on 1000s of texts. He is a very competent professional.
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 02:38:30 http://www...rdic-countries-happiness-race/ ‘Sweden is regularly voted one of the world's ‘happiest’ places – but as a Black woman I don’t always agree’ Nordic countries are among the most egalitarian societies on earth, but an erasure of cultural differences also makes them difficult places to live for many... By Lola Akinmade ÅkerströmPublished: 26 October 2023 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01419870.2023.2176336 Afro-Sweden: becoming Black in a color-blind country by Ryan Thomas Skinner, foreword by Jason Timbuktu Diakité, Minneapolis, University of Minnesota Press, 2022, vii + 308 pp., E28.99 (paperback), ISBN 978-1517912307 https://liu.se/en/article/svart-i-sverige Black in Sweden 05 December 2016 Eva Bergstedt Skin colour matters, also in Sweden. But many people don’t accept that racism is a problem here – only in other countries. So claims doctoral student Victoria Kawesa, who writes about black feminism and whiteness in Sweden. ==== Yikes
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 02:39:46 Bam, done, 200 euro for 2 hours work, thankee verr much!
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 02:40:42 Havent even had breakfast yet and Im done with todays work ;p
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 02:41:52 You are a waste of carbon.
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 02:43:23 Which means nipping down to the beach here on the French Riviera on my scooter and having lunch down in the harbour overlooking huge billionaire yachts :p
murder Member	Tue Apr 22 03:10:52 You should've just gone with "Nigga". That way no one would get offended. :o)
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 09:54:31 I think Ill just go with ""If you are not Aryan, your participation in this cancer drug trial helps". It's always important to keep the original intent and tone.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Tue Apr 22 10:14:17 How are you this bad at something you have done for years and that is rooted in the languages your parents spoke? I know I have given you a hard time because you pretend like you understand the topics you are translating, but I never imagined that you would fuck up the translating itself this badly.
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 15:52:40 This is probably fastest, the most complete pwnage in UP history.
Forwyn Member	Tue Apr 22 18:29:37 When I was learning Farsi, instructors would literally clap for you when you could contextualize "close" interpretations that made sense on the fly, instead of sounding like a fucking idiot going for direct translations. I mean, I wasn't learning with slouches. You have to be in the upper quintile of testing to even take the DLAB. But there was still a stark difference between the people that could, and couldn't. The latter tended to test more poorly overall. But like...we figured this shit out organically in like 20 weeks of instruction, bro. You do this as a profession? lmao
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 18:36:27 Oh, US texts that contain racist allusions that have to be tidied up are one the most well-known problems in the field, whether the text is intended for another country that has English as its first language or whether its translated into another language. Americans are generally wholly unaware of how much racist undertones their casual language is to the rest of the world, though. Its just still startling sometimes to come across such scientifically irrelevant allusions in a scientific context, in the same way that we all know Trump is a pathological liar but the world still continues to be flabbergasted at his continued lies.
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 18:39:24 The most common and utterly irrelevant racist irrelevancies one comes across in US texts, and only in US texts, is when they ask for a job applicant's "race" and even suggest "caucasian", etc. That would get the employer sued in any other country in the West.
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 18:41:46 Those kinds of texts are unstranslatable. You have to simply omit translating those kinds of questions and inform the client that this is a huge cultural faux pas in all democracies.
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 18:51:19 Let’s break this down in two parts: --- 1. Chronological Poster Identification (Thread Map) --- 2. Logical, Moral, and Ideological Failures by WilliamTheBastard A. Logical Mistakes 1. Category Error: > “‘Black’ is not an ethnicity. It’s not scientifically useful.” Error: Treats a culturally defined identity label (Black) as invalid because it doesn’t conform to scientific classification. Fallacy: Category mistake. Ignores the contextual role of language in human systems (e.g., identity, culture, policy). 2. False Universality: > “Only in the USA do they use language like that.” Error: Asserts a universal negative with no support. Fallacy: Hasty generalization. Ignored well-documented parallel language in the UK, Canada, Sweden (as later proven by sources). 3. Appeal to Scientific Relevance in Non-Scientific Context: Error: Demands scientific precision in a sociocultural recruitment message. Fallacy: Red herring. Obscures the pragmatic intent of outreach language with irrelevant precision. 4. Contradiction via Examples: > “Black has to be changed to something else with scientific relevance.” Yet, this is proven false with evidence from Swedish academic and communications institutions (see Nimatzo’s sources). Logical result: He is proven incorrect on both factual and cultural grounds. --- B. Moral and Ethical Failures 1. Delegitimizing Cultural Identity through Reductionism: > “Black is not scientifically useful.” Problem: Frames identity as invalid if not biologically taxonomized. Implication: Erases lived experience and systemic racial structures. 2. Victim-Blaming / Cultural Exceptionalism: > “Americans are generally unaware of how racist their casual language is.” Problem: Redirects criticism of his own incompetence toward national moral indictment of an entire culture. Result: Displaces blame and dodges accountability. 3. Fascist or Reactionary Tendencies (Explicit and Implicit): “Neofascist junky” (used as insult against Pillz) — Projection tactic. “If you’re not Aryan…” fake translation suggestion — Invokes Nazi language in a grotesque parody of localization. Moral Error: Trivializes real historical racial violence as rhetorical sarcasm. Constant assertion that US racial discourse is inherently corrupted or requires cleansing when translated. Pattern: Purity framing — a key rhetorical device in fascist ideology. 4. Abuse of Authority: > “I work professionally on 1000s of texts.” Problem: Uses authority to deflect criticism, shut down discussion, and refuse correction—even when concrete evidence proves him wrong. --- C. Structural Collapse Timeline 00:56–01:49: Initial argument formed — weak premise based on mistranslation anxiety and scientific rigidity. 01:52–02:23: Nimatzo enters — factually corrects and destroys foundation. 02:26–02:38: Pillz delivers narrative and rhetorical closing blows with predictive framing. 03:10: Murder derails — not relevant to core argument. 09:54–18:39: WTB spirals — sarcasm, projection, cultural panic, ends with complete disassociation from original point. --- Final Summary: WilliamTheBastard’s rhetorical and ideological failure is total. He collapses: Logically: Through misuse of category, bad generalization, and refusal to acknowledge counter-evidence. Morally: By invoking fascist metaphors, delegitimizing identity, and offloading blame onto culture. Performatively: By flailing under scrutiny, projecting authority, and lashing out with ideological paranoia. This is a case study in rhetorical recursion leading to symbolic collapse. A textbook example of defensive reactionary ideology being exposed by structured, calm, factual dismantling.
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 18:53:29 This final set cements the collapse. Let's break down what's new and why it matters: "You have to simply omit translating those kinds of questions..." Failure: Advocates deleting meaning from source material- without consent-based on personal moral filter. Implication: The translator becomes the arbiter of what a society is allowed to see or say. This is authoritarian. It's literal epistemic control-not based on accuracy, but on political purification
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 18:56:21 Though to be fair, this entire text was poorly written from "If you are Black/African descent" and onwards, and shouldnt have been published in the US either. They thought they were getting it right by capitalizing Black, though lol
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 19:01:48 "Though to be fair, this entire text was poorly written" There are gasoline huffing FAS monkeys more qualified to say this than you are.
williamthebastard Member	Tue Apr 22 19:20:13 You only have to cross the border to Canada, and immediately all those unconscious, casual racist allusions so commonin the US vanish. I do work for Canadas largest translation bureau, and they would never dream of using the kind of US language that reflects that the user sees Jamaicans and Rwandians as the same "race".
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 19:21:47 Lol I was for a Haitian owned company with dozens of haitians. When one of them stole a managers work phone and got caught the boss said, and I quote 'ta fait une by noir la' Lmao
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 19:24:25 https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/programs/social-development-partnerships/supporting-black-communities.html http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/cbjs-scjn/index.html Canada’s Black Justice Strategy Read Toward Transformative Change: an Implementation Plan for Canada’s Black Justice Strategy, the Implementation Plan for Canada’s Black Justice Strategy
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 19:31:51 https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/campaigns/black-history-month.html February is Black History Month Each February, people across Canada participate in Black History Month events and celebrations that honour the legacy and contributions of Black people in Canada and their communities. The 2025 theme for Black History Month is: “Black Legacy and Leadership: Celebrating Canadian History and Uplifting Future Generations.” This theme acknowledges the diversity of Black Canadians, the importance of Black leadership and the legacy being built for future generations. Black communities are diverse at many levels.
Pillz Member	Tue Apr 22 19:44:36 https://kpmg.com/ca/en/home/about/inclusion-diversity-equity.html Here, our biggest accounting firm. Black is a category in their inclusion and diversity strategy. Indigenous Peoples People of Colour Black People 2SLGBTQIA+ Women Newcomers to Canada Faith So now that I've covered federal and corporate acceptance of the term 'black'... Ready to admit you're wrong?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Apr 23 00:29:24 Wow. Again?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Apr 23 03:38:22 Remember that time WTB pretended to understand astronomy? http://utopiaforums.com/boardthread?id=politics&thread=90226 I love the arrogance, he turns it all the way up to 11 and you can really feel how he pities the poor scientist for having to stoop so low and cater to the public with pretty pictures. williamthebastard Member Wed Jul 13 00:25:51 Yeah, this is almost fake. This is like adding colors to black and white WWI shots, times 1000 williamthebastard Member Wed Jul 13 13:19:57 This is apparently what the raw images look like before they start extrapolating various data and adding colors in photoshop http://pet...Aligns-its-Mirrors-800x420.jpg williamthebastard Member Wed Jul 13 13:23:06 probably lots of useful data for the researchers, but it feels like they had to produce pretty images to capture the publics attention Meanwhile those pictures are the data, that is the science. I give a beat down at the link.
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