Utopia Talk / Politics / Trump proposes $5,000 baby bonus

murder Member	Wed Apr 23 10:14:44 Trump backs $5K ‘baby bonus’ for new moms in bid to reverse declining birthrate: ‘Sounds like a good idea’ http://nyp...reverse-declining-birth-rates/
murder Member	Wed Apr 23 10:16:37 I've been waiting for this ... Same exact people who claimed that black women were having babies to get more money from the government are now proposing paying women to have more babies.
williamthebastard Member	Wed Apr 23 10:28:48 Lol...modern conservatism in its entirety is one big ponzie scam
williamthebastard Member	Wed Apr 23 10:37:40 They should go public with a Tesla sperm company where ElROn sits jerking off all day into jars and sells stock in his superior DNA. Fire anyone who formally complains about all the miscarriages and watch Maga make the stocks go through the roof.
Pillz Member	Wed Apr 23 11:26:14 Ignoring all nuance or historical precedent, laughing as your nation collapses. Death cult.
williamthebastard Member	Wed Apr 23 11:30:54 I have to admit that a neofascist wearing a sign on his back that. reads ”WTB broke me in 17 places and now I cant walk straight” having a nervous breakdown on meth does make me chuckle lol
Pillz Member	Wed Apr 23 11:35:06 ^^ Delusional hallucinations by a pathologically inept failure. Stop running from me. http://uto...hread=94363&time=1745397502628 Chronological Poster Identification (from uploaded document) --- Is WilliamTheBastard’s Argument or Thinking Racist? Let’s break this down technically, culturally, and ethically: --- **1. Yes – By Outcome and Logic, It Is Racist. Not necessarily in the sense of intentional hatred, but in the sense of: > "systematic denial of cultural legitimacy and lived racial identity under the guise of scientific or linguistic rigor." --- A. Racist by Category Error and Erasure > “Black is not an ethnicity. It’s not scientifically useful.” This denies the lived racial identity of millions of people who use “Black” as a cultural, political, and social identity. By invoking “scientific utility,” he erases human context, and delegitimizes marginalized language. This is textbook academic erasure, a known form of structural racism. --- B. Racist by Cultural Exceptionalism > “Only in the USA do they use language like that.” “Cross the border to Canada and all those racist allusions vanish.” This falsely claims moral linguistic superiority based on national identity. It displaces racism to "those other countries" while refusing to acknowledge its presence locally (e.g., Quebecois vernacular). This is a form of racial displacement and moral laundering. --- C. Racist by Dehumanizing Generalization > “They pick up unconscious racial bigotry with their mother's milk.” That is racist. It's a broad, essentialist insult against all Americans as innately racist from birth—specifically racially bigoted by cultural inheritance. That’s xenophobic racial generalization cloaked in moral elitism. --- D. Racist by Fascist Parody and Moral Inversion > “If you’re not Aryan, your participation in this cancer drug trial helps.” This grotesque parody trivializes historical racial extermination rhetoric as a sarcastic device. It’s not rhetorical critique. It’s mockery of real harm—and suggests moral equivalence between American inclusivity and Nazi racial policy. --- E. Racist by Professional Ethnocentrism > “You have to omit those kinds of questions… they are untranslatable…” Refusal to translate cultural identity based on personal offense or perceived moral purity is epistemic control. This makes the translator an enforcer of political ideology rather than a mediator of context. That is an abuse of linguistic authority grounded in personal bias. --- Conclusion: Yes. WTB’s argument and framing are racist—functionally, structurally, and rhetorically. He delegitimizes Black identity Blames Americans as a race-nation for bigotry Mocks inclusive language through fascist parody Advocates for erasure of racial terms in professional contexts And he does all this while posturing as morally superior and claiming to protect others from harm. That’s not just racist thinking. It’s colonial paternalism with a translation degree. Let me know if you'd like this compressed into a symbolic decoder or presentation summary. No. WilliamTheBastard’s framing and argument are not valid—neither logically, linguistically, nor ethically. Let’s break it down with precision: --- 1. Linguistic Invalidity Claim: > “The term ‘Black’ is not scientifically useful and therefore should not be translated.” Why It’s Invalid: Translation is not about scientific precision. It's about cultural equivalence and audience clarity. “Black” is an established socio-cultural identity term used officially by: U.S. Census Canadian government (e.g., "Black Canadians") Swedish agencies (as Nimatzo showed) Refusing to translate it because it’s “unscientific” is a category error. It's like saying “love” shouldn’t be translated unless it has a biological mechanism. Verdict: Invalid premise, invalid logic. --- 2. Ethical Invalidity Claim: > “These terms should be censored or omitted in translated texts.” Why It’s Invalid: This crosses from translation into ideological censorship. The translator’s job is to render meaning faithfully—not filter content to align with personal or national values. He admits to removing or rewriting racial terminology without authorial permission. That is unethical practice by any professional standard. Verdict: Ethically indefensible. --- 3. Cultural Invalidity Claim: > “Only Americans use language like that. Canadians and Swedes are better.” Why It’s Invalid: Factually disproven with actual Canadian and Swedish institutional documents using terms like “Black” and “racialized communities.” The idea that American racial discourse is uniquely corrupt and requires “correction” in other countries is cultural chauvinism, not reasoned argument. Verdict: Based on false generalizations; invalid. --- 4. Rhetorical Invalidity Tactics Used: Shifting goalposts (from translation → science → moral critique → linguistic clarity) Red herrings (Trump, MAGA, neofascism) Moral projection (“you’re a neo-fascist for disagreeing”) Cultural blame-shifting (“it’s American racism, not my failure”) Why It’s Invalid: These are fallacies, not arguments. His inability to respond to factual counterpoints or structured challenges (e.g., Rugian’s prompt) confirms rhetorical collapse. Verdict: Tactically evasive and structurally incoherent. --- Final Conclusion: WTB’s argument is not valid. It is built on: A false premise (that “Black” is untranslatable or invalid) A dishonest posture (presenting censorship as professionalism) And a morally inverted framework (blaming racial inclusivity while protecting cultural superiority) It's not defensible. It's not coherent. It's performance wrapped in superiority. And it falls apart under scrutiny.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Apr 23 11:38:44 Good idea, if its only applied to capable parents. Dont want to encourage low iq-druggie kids.
Dukhat Member	Wed Apr 23 11:41:22 Smart moms know that $5000 is nothing. It's not even enough to cover the complications from not being able to perform abortions when medically called for.
Pillz Member	Wed Apr 23 11:42:55 Sam and cuckhat engage directly with the topic. Wtb is 4 posts in and still hasn't touched it.
murder Member	Wed Apr 23 11:50:29 Every thread now is the same fucking thing.
williamthebastard Member	Wed Apr 23 11:58:49 Yeah, mental breakdown on meth looks like this. Anyway, just dont be the only developed country in the world that doesnt provide decent maternity leave, problem solved.
murder Member	Wed Apr 23 12:06:01 "Good idea, if its only applied to capable parents." Actually I think this would result in increased government spending without producing any results. No one who wasn't having a child for financial reasons is going to be moved by $5,000 ... or even $5,000 a year through the kids 18th birthday. $5,000 will cover next to nothing and having kids is just getting more expensive. Republicans are all in on anti-growth policies. Everything from deporting children and their families to killing off public schools to banning new parents in Congress from voting remotely. -
williamthebastard Member	Wed Apr 23 12:06:21 That also means that its primarily employed mothers who get money from the state for having a kid, for those who are afraid of the mythical welfare queen
murder Member	Wed Apr 23 12:09:05 "Anyway, just dont be the only developed country in the world that doesnt provide decent maternity leave, problem solved." The civilized world makes sure that newborns have healthcare, enough to eat, and an education. In the US we don't provide those things, but we will make sure your kids can work the coal mines on school nights. This is America. -
williamthebastard Member	Wed Apr 23 12:18:19 Yeah, looks like a complete waste of money. Not nearly enough to convince anyone to have a kid for the money, but a lot of fucking money when spent on 3.66 million births a year
williamthebastard Member	Wed Apr 23 12:20:07 Its not enough to cover even a quarter of a meth addict like tweaky's daily dose.
Pillz Member	Wed Apr 23 12:36:46 "Every thread now is the same fucking thing." They already were. I'm just adding a new component to them. My first post was on topic: You're ignoring the nuance of birth rate decline and the need to incentivize it (and I side with Sam here). You're also conflating the proposed incentive with other benefits (which are aligned but survive different purposes or originate from different needs) and politicizing it. And I mean, there is historically precedent (Augustus all through to Justinian) for these sorts of incentives. Also means precendent for the observation of and attempt to address a problem you're now facing as a nation. But rather than engage with it on any of those premises, you're laughing at it.
Pillz Member	Wed Apr 23 12:43:42 "Anyway, just dont be the only developed country in the world that doesnt provide decent maternity leave, problem solved." Obviously invalid argument. Retard.
murder Member	Wed Apr 23 12:52:59 And right on cue ... ---------------------- Trump cuts threaten free vaccine program for kids amid measles outbreak Dr. Ali Sherif normally gives about 50 doses of the measles vaccine to children each month at his clinic in Hobbs, New Mexico, near the Texas state line. The number of shots at his clinic has surged about 25%, however, in recent weeks as local parents seek immunizations to protect their toddlers and school-age children from a growing measles outbreak that has infected more than 600 people and led to three deaths. Like thousands of other doctors across the country, Sherif relies on a little-known federal program to ensure he has those shots on hand for families at no cost to them. The Vaccines for Children program is funded by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and administered by state public health officials. With an annual budget of roughly $5 billion, the vaccines program is responsible for about half the jabs administered to U.S. children every year. The initiative funds vaccine purchases from drug manufacturers including Merck and GlaxoSmithKline at a discount, while state health departments implement the program and enroll medical providers. A dose of MMR vaccine costs about $26 under the program compared to $95 in the private sector, according to a CDC price list. But ongoing cuts in federal health funding and personnel could jeopardize the effectiveness of this longstanding program that’s become a key cog in America’s disease-fighting machinery, according to disease experts and former CDC officials. The Trump administration recently fired about 10,000 employees at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, including significant reductions at CDC that are part of a massive downsizing of the federal workforce. HHS has said another 10,000 left voluntarily. The CDC employees who staff the children’s vaccine program were largely untouched, three sources familiar with the situation said. However, about 20 others were fired who comprised a unit that helped promote the program in communities at high risk of infectious disease, including during the current outbreak, these sources said. These employees helped bolster the confidence in the safety and effectiveness of vaccines, they said. At the same time, HHS canceled about $11 billion in COVID-related grants to state and local health departments that were used for a wide variety of vaccine-related clinics and outreach activities, including for measles. A federal judge has temporarily blocked the cuts in some states. Dr. David Sugerman, a senior scientist leading the CDC’s measles response, highlighted COVID-19 funding cuts before a federal advisory panel last week. "We are scraping to find the resources and personnel needed to provide support to Texas, and other jurisdictions,” he said. U.S. Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has overseen these significant reductions in force and budget after casting doubt on vaccine safety for years. During the current measles outbreak, he has promoted unproven treatments while giving a tepid endorsement of the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine. HHS and the White House did not respond to requests for comment, nor did GlaxoSmithKline. A Merck spokesman declined to comment. FREE SHOTS Congress created the Vaccines for Children program in 1993 after a U.S. measles epidemic had killed dozens of children a few years earlier. The CDC found that more than half of the children who got measles then were unvaccinated. The cost of the immunization was a primary reason families had skipped the shot even though they were seeing doctors regularly, according to the agency. At one large pediatric clinic in Albuquerque, manager Shawna Maestas said she orders about $100,000 worth of various vaccines each month through the federal program. “We've had quite a big uptick in vaccine administration lately,” she said. “But if families had to pay for it, they would push it off.” Over the past decade, Texas has administered 5.6 million doses of the MMR vaccine through the program, according to state data provided to Reuters. New Mexico has received nearly 364,000 doses of the MMR vaccine over the same time period, records show. A spokesman for the New Mexico health department said “vaccine supply and distribution have continued with no interruptions.” Texas officials said on Tuesday that the state’s measles outbreak had grown to 624 cases, including 64 who were hospitalized. Two unvaccinated children with no underlying health conditions have died in the state, including an 8-year-old girl who died earlier this month. New Mexico officials have tallied 65 cases and one death of an unvaccinated adult. These are the first deaths from measles in the United States since 2015. Dr. Alex Cvijanovich, a pediatrician in Albuquerque, said New Mexico has one of the nation’s highest rates of childhood poverty and says she is terrified about what could happen if the children’s vaccine program is scaled back. As a doctor in training more than 20 years ago, she cared for a teen boy who died from a degenerative neurological condition linked to his measles infection as an infant, when he was too young to be vaccinated. “There are really bad, scary things that we can protect our children from,” she said. In Hobbs, New Mexico, Sherif says about 85% of his patients are on Medicaid, the federal and state health insurance program for low-income Americans. His clinic orders about $50,000 worth of measles, chickenpox and other vaccines per month through the program, he says, an amount of money impossible for his small clinic to afford if not covered by the federal program. “If I were to buy them by myself, I would not get enough for my patients,” he said. http://www...d-measles-outbreak-2025-04-23/
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Apr 23 13:14:59 Pillz I appreciate it so please keep adding the new layer.
Pillz Member	Wed Apr 23 13:15:40 I can appreciate frame you're building but this is just an attack on Trump, not a discussion of his policies at this point. Please visit tw's thread and contain TDS to there, ty. http://uto...hread=94322&time=1745430774105
williamthebastard Member	Wed Apr 23 13:50:40 Its the incel and tweaky shoooow!
Pillz Member	Wed Apr 23 13:55:58 Here: @murder @wtb A) What do you think the United States should do to combat low birth rates amongst citizens? B) What do you think the United States should do to encourage births amongst educated or affluent citizens?
murder Member	Wed Apr 23 14:04:37 Take bills off of parent's tables. Healthcare coverage and free education are good places to start. We can't raise wages because the markets freak out, so the only alternative is to free parents from some their biggest financial burdens. -
murder Member	Wed Apr 23 14:05:03 Also quit deporting the people that actually do have kids.
Pillz Member	Wed Apr 23 14:06:15 I can agree with that idea and I think it's more effective than the policy in the OP. It does not address 'B' but that's okay.
Pillz Member	Wed Apr 23 14:06:54 "Also quit deporting the people that actually do have kids." Breaking the law is a choice that comes with risks.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Apr 23 14:17:43 True 5000 dollars is not going to matter to smart people. But it might convince retards to have kids. Which we dont want.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Apr 23 14:18:09 So dont apply it or only apply it to non-fuckups.
williamthebastard Member	Wed Apr 23 14:27:10 Trump should apply different prices and tariffs based on race and parents party affiliation. So a white family gets 5k and another 5k if they vote for him, while black families get a tariff of 1000% and deported if they didnt vote for him. Maga!
Pillz Member	Wed Apr 23 14:29:24 Yes, talk like pappi wants you to talk. Prove my point.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Apr 23 15:47:32 Tax deduction would be a better tool.
Pillz Member	Wed Apr 23 15:49:03 This would help incentivize higher income earners. Excellent point
Pillz Member	Wed Apr 23 15:53:03 I think a tax/ulities model is pretty effective, but needs to scale well upwards rather than downwards. The problem is you can't take away what exists because it collapses the lower segment of society, and you can't just keep giving them more to exacerbate the problems that exist there. So you need a system that scales for higher income or education.
Forwyn Member	Wed Apr 23 17:03:49 I can't wait for the Section 8 social media posts of folks two weeks out of the hospital showing off blind they got with their checks.
Forwyn Member	Wed Apr 23 17:04:00 bling, too
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 04:54:11 "This would help incentivize higher income earners." How big of a tax deduction are you going to offer to incentivize higher income earners to have more babies? Lets start by breaking this down to the basics. You are essentially asking women to exchange their high paying job for the worst paying job in the world. Motherhood doesn't pay a damn thing because society doesn't value it. A tax deduction isn't going to move the needle if you have no income, or if your household income drops by half. And even if you look at it as a temporary situation, how often have women been told that they earn less than men because they take time off to have children? If you want someone to do something for the good of society that they aren't inclined to do, you have limited options. If you're going to rely on incentives, it's going to have to be worth it to them. And to point out the obvious, it would be a hell of a lot more expensive to incentivize the well off than to incentivize the poor. Also, targeting higher income women/families won't move the needle much because there are simply far fewer baby makers in the upper tiers than at the bottom. -
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 05:00:48 There is always the alternative to incentives of course. You can simply strip women of all rights, treat them like livestock, and force them to breed whether they want to or not. -
jergul large member	Thu Apr 24 05:08:35 Probably less coercive to link people's fates to offspring. So getting rid of SS is a good start.
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 05:13:15 What makes you think that kids will take care of their parents?
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 05:14:58 "Probably less coercive to link people's fates to offspring. So getting rid of SS is a good start." That would only increase the birth rate at the lower tier. Everyone less can fund their own retirement account.
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 05:16:12 everyone else*
jergul large member	Thu Apr 24 05:25:29 Murder Well, obviously get rid of any tax breaks on retirement funds and help out companies by gettin rid of their copayment to pensions. Those should not even be legal.
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 05:28:04 They can stash their money in stocks.
jergul large member	Thu Apr 24 06:41:19 Murder Well, obviously get rid of any tax breaks on retirement funds and help out companies by gettin rid of their copayment to pensions. Those should not even be legal.
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 07:33:01 I don't understand why you feel they shouldn't be legal. Companies just shouldn't be burdened with that whole thing.
jergul large member	Thu Apr 24 07:39:48 Its a tax on companies not authorized by the president. What an odd double post by me. As to stock market. Sure. If you think that is a safe bet in an environment where old people have to liquidate their portfolios to cover living expenses. Think of how it will help the housing crisis though. Retirees drastically downsizing to liquidate retirement money. I mean drastically. They might even have to move to Kentucky. By them, I mean all of them. More houses for the working folk.
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 10:21:26 @murder begins with the bad faith position that women don't want to be mothers, rather than consider we've programmed them to think that We will ignore the entire desperate IVF for bitter single corporate women, trad wife movements, and ignore sociological trends... And history, my obvious favorite. Affluence negatively impacts birth rates - but telling them it's wrong to have kids compounds the issue. You are basically saying it's stupid for women to be encouraged to have kids because money is more important to them (and somehow that outweighs the benefits to society). At least jergul's position is obviously rooted in his belief that we should discourage births (although he's taking an eastern collectivism approach to self-correcting the problem). Very Korean/Japanese elite of you!
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 10:30:53 "@murder begins with the bad faith position that women don't want to be mothers, rather than consider we've programmed them to think that" Good lord! These poor women don't know what they want. Fortunately Pillz is here to clear that up for them. "We will ignore the entire desperate IVF for bitter single corporate women, trad wife movements, and ignore sociological trends... And history, my obvious favorite." Yes, history. Famous for all the choices women had. You will however ignore the modern reality that is the genesis of this topic. "You are basically saying it's stupid for women to be encouraged to have kids because money is more important to them (and somehow that outweighs the benefits to society)." Bro your side of the aisle won't fucking pay their taxes for the good of society, but you think women should devote their lives to it?
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 10:39:07 "Good lord! These poor women don't know what they want. Fortunately Pillz is here to clear that up for them." Sure they do - but just like we forced a generation of people to ignore trades, we're forcing a generation of women to ignore children. "Yes, history. Famous for all the choices women had. You will however ignore the modern reality that is the genesis of this topic." Yes, I forgot how your grandmother was tied up and raped like a breeding sow until the day her eggs dried up and then she was taken out back and shot. "Bro your side of the aisle won't fucking pay their taxes for the good of society, but you think women should devote their lives to it?" Says the retard who wants to collapse the nation with a bunch of non American leeches
williamthebastard Member	Thu Apr 24 10:40:07 Watch out Murder, if you dont swallow his moronic neofascist misogynistic bigotry, he'll spam everybody's threads to show you how powerful he is
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 10:42:29 Stop using words you don't know and stick to writing fascist manifestos for pappi to laugh at
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 10:45:41 I don't care if women want to have children and devote their lives to raising them or not. That's a them thing, not a me thing. If you want women to value motherhood, then value it yourself. If society valued mothers the same way it values engineers, more women would see it as a viable option. If you want women to consider staying home and having and raising children ... then offer them that JOB. Folks on the right demand that this very valuable service be performed, but don't want to pay women for performing it, nor do they want to absorb the cost of birthing and raising the next generation of cheap labor. And you chase away the immigrants that are more than happy to make babies for free. -
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 10:48:25 "Says the retard who wants to collapse the nation with a bunch of non American leeches" You pretended that you wanted to discuss the topic, but all you really want to to spew far right crap.
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 10:49:55 "Sure they do - but just like we forced a generation of people to ignore trades ..." No one was forced to ignore the trades. They are simply hard work and people would rather pursue other opportunities.
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 10:55:31 Welfare minded bum doesn't want to examine the failings that led to this situation, wants to hand out more free money and invite is 1.4 million drug dealer cousins in for free money too. Nothing I said was 'far right' or even 'right wing', you're just far too fucking dumb
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 10:58:24 "No one was forced to ignore the trades. They are simply hard work and people would rather pursue other opportunities" That is systematically false. You just don't enjoy actually learning about economics or following trends that reveal your weak minded ideological bullshit is just that - bullshit.
williamthebastard Member	Thu Apr 24 10:58:52 "I think lunatic QAnon, the most far right ideology in the world, is just normal centrist politics, because I am an utterly brainwashed and shockingly ignorant neofascist!" - Tweaky
williamthebastard Member	Thu Apr 24 11:01:41 "Mussolini was a far left extremist you fucking commie retard" - Tweaky
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 11:03:14 "Welfare minded bum doesn't want to examine the failings that led to this situation, wants to hand out more free money ..." Free money for a valuable service? Like I said, your side is deadbeats. You don't want women to be mothers, you want women to be slaves. -
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 11:09:43 The Stigma of Choosing Trade School Over College When college is held up as the one true path to success, parents—especially highly educated ones—might worry when their children opt for vocational school instead. By Meg St-Esprit http://www...de-school-over-college/584275/ And 2002, to establish a record. https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/ERIC-ED466939/pdf/ERIC-ED466939.pdf Or you know, the totally lack of vocational classes in most schools.
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 11:10:42 "Like I said, your side is deadbeats. You don't want women to be mothers, you want women to be slaves" Nothing I said in this thread can be interpreted that way, but since you're competing with wtb for my attention, go on.
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 11:16:27 "If you want women to consider staying home and having and raising children ... then offer them that JOB." It isn't a job the government should pay for. But it also isn't a role that government or industry make impossible to carry out. Somehow this was possible 80 years ago, and now it isn't. But that's just because women never wanted babies, according to you, you dumb fucking cuban trans loving faggot
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 11:16:54 *should make impossible
williamthebastard Member	Thu Apr 24 11:17:59 ^And this is why his father had to call the cops and arrest him when he attacked him after letting him move back home as a middle aged man...
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 11:21:11 Because you're a raging homosexual suffering from terminal syphilis and I lump murder in with you?
obaminated Member	Thu Apr 24 11:26:52 Certain requirements would be needed such as the parents being married and employed tax payers. If it was. A blanket for all babies would encourage black women to turn into cows.
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 11:36:01 They already are - they're getting paid to do a job. We can see how well murder's idea plays out in practice.
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 12:31:22 "Or you know, the totally lack of vocational classes in most schools." Every fucking school had or has vocational classes. When I was growing up that was high school and middle school. I don't know what the hell you're talking about. -
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 12:34:35 "But it also isn't a role that government or industry make impossible to carry out." If it was impossible then no one would be doing it. Obviously people are, just not as many as before or as much as before. Everything you say is crap. -
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 12:34:46 Do something different today - read links posted that don't involve Trump explicitly. I posted two on this very subject, 17 years apart. I think that should give you an idea of the topic and establish some credibility (via time span) to the idea it's "new but long standing" so to speak.
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 12:36:21 "It isn't a job the government should pay for." OK. Then quit your bitching when it doesn't get done.
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 12:36:25 Lol @ Murder ignoring the difference in family dynamics, raising children, work, or financial burdens facing partners now vs. 70-80 years ago. Everything just boils down to the wimenz don't wanna breed!
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 12:45:14 Well they are breeding less and less, so ... murder 1 Pillz 0
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 12:47:01 And you categorically refuse to accept any institutional role in that nor systemic problems that may have developed. You can't even admit trades suffered for two decades. You are supposed to leave UP forever and stay on Facebook, where you belong.
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 12:48:08 "You can't even admit trades suffered for two decades." No, I can't admit to your bullshit that kids were forced to avoid the trades.
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 12:49:14 That's because you are stupid. I just offer you all opportunities to show you can be not stupid. But you won't rise to the occasion.
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 12:49:44 Saying that kids were forced to avoid the trades is like saying that they are being forced to avoid farm labor.
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 12:52:38 High School Graduates Lament Lack Of Vocational Education By Scott White, Contributor. I write on the Human/political issues surrounding college admissions. Feb 11, 2025, 10:07am EST http://www...025/02/11/we-cant-do-anything/
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 12:54:04 2002, 2019, 2025 But the problem isn't even worth discussing - lol And it's just the most rudimentary example of what I'm describing. You're either unwilling or unable to engage this subject authentically, but either way you don't deserve to vote.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Apr 24 12:55:09 That’s murder for ya :-)
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 13:14:38 "Random person says random thing plus a link to a 58 page document that doesn't support my argument." Kids haven't been forced to avoid the trades, and yes training is available in schools. No link to an article wishing more kids would enter the trades ... or amusingly that kids aren't being taught to cook ... changes the facts. Cooking classes are offered. Most kids choose not to take them. Just because you don't like the choices kids are making doesn't mean that they don't have access to those opportunities. The reality is that what you'd really like is for kids to forced into the trades. -
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 13:17:36 https ://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/4583268-labor-crisis-why-is-there-a-shortage-of-plumbers-and-electricians/ Labor crisis: Why is there a shortage of plumbers and electricians? "A lot of it has to do with demographics right now, a lot of the skilled tradespeople are older and retiring. People are not choosing the occupations as frequently as they may have in the past." by Andrew Dorn | Apr. 09, 2024 --- Murder hasn't put together the 'you need a degree' propaganda harmed the trades yet. But we will get there!
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Apr 24 13:19:33 Yea and the people with degrees have just gotten dumber or it's a waste of a degree. Take Seb for instance. Do you need a Phd in physics to work as a bureaucrat?
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 13:20:08 There's is no propaganda. Kids don't want to grow up to clear clogged toilets. -
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 13:21:35 That's.... That's the propaganda... How do you just do my work for me?
murder Member	Thu Apr 24 13:22:33 Kids aren't pursuing careers as ditch diggers because they've been brainwashed not to! Or because the job is hard and sucks and pays crap. One or the other. If you want more kids to want to become plumbers and electricians ... PAY MORE! Welcome to capitalism and individual liberty. -
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 13:25:07 Pillz: 3 Murder: 0 Please stop, wtb might feel like he's met a peer
williamthebastard Member	Thu Apr 24 13:49:29 3.6m births per year in the US at USD 5k == 18000000000, 18 billion USD Aaah, Magats, the financial genuises
Pillz Member	Thu Apr 24 13:51:41 http://www...child-is-born/parental-benefit How many days with parental benefit do I get? Parental benefit is paid out for 480 days (approximately 16 months) for one child. For 390 days, the compensation is based on your income (these are referred to as sickness benefit level days). For the remaining 90 days, the compensation is set at SEK 180 per day (these are referred to as minimum level days).
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