Utopia Talk / Politics / Would it be an act of war?

murder rank	Thu Jan 29 17:02:22 Sen. Paul (R-KY) Asks, "If Reversed, Would a Foreign Power Removing a US President Be Act of War?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYeJoFM5oH4 -
murder rank	Thu Jan 29 17:05:05 When Rand Paul is the sane one, you know you're in the loony bin. -
Rugian rank	Thu Jan 29 17:27:50 Rand Paul is usually the sane one. It's your batshit leftist outlook on the world that's in clownland.
murder rank	Thu Jan 29 17:34:56 The "leftists" aren't the ones responsible for the guy on the other side of those questions ... or his mob boss. -
Sam Adams rank	Thu Jan 29 19:00:37 Uh, ya. And ya the us did go to war against the Maduro regime. Duh.
Habebe rank	Thu Jan 29 19:45:02 Like Rubio said, Paul has been consistently the voice of reason, albeit often ignored.
kargen rank	Thu Jan 29 19:54:22 Not even the UN recognized Maduro as the legitimate leader.
murder rank	Thu Jan 29 19:58:50 Next week ... "Not even the UN recognized the Islamic Republic"
Habebe rank	Fri Jan 30 03:18:47 Maduro not being legitimate doesn't mean it's cool to just replace him. M7 in Uganda just shutdown the internet for a week, and kept his rival.bobbi wine shut up in his house with the military outside. But Uganda doesn't have much oil.
kargen rank	Fri Jan 30 06:41:55 murder, except they do if your talking about the Islamic Republic of Iran. They also recognise Venezuela for that matter but didn't recognise Maduro as the leader of Venezuela. Nice try though. They didn't replace him. Not yet. They enforced a warrant for his arrest. If he is found innocent I'm sure he can go back.
jergul rank	Fri Jan 30 11:22:38 So the Trump regime is something distinct from the United States sammy? Interesting. It is then possible to go to war against the regime, but not the country. It would follow that arresting Trump is not really an act of war against the US, simply an act of war against a 2nd term Trump on his way out for age and term limit reasons. Repriocity is a bitch, aint it? Habebe I dont think you will have a legitimate regime in a few year's time. But frankly, "legitimate" is a meaningless term. How a country chooses to govern itself is its own affair. Venezuela exists and is run by its government. Acts of War are against the country, not against some select part of it. We tend to justify actions we take specifically by ignoring sovereignity and think we can act with impunity against actors within that sovereign state.
jergul rank	Fri Jan 30 11:37:00 Kargen Maduro was outside of US jurisdiction and the US had no legal means of enforcing the warrant. Like, I dont really mind that we are formally stepping away from the pretence of a rules based order in global affairs. Rules for thy, not for me was getting a bit tiresome, so good to establish there are no rules at all for anyone. But rather a shame to give up that pillar of Western dominance. It served us (and the US) well for longer than I have been alive. But it is what it is.
jergul rank	Fri Jan 30 11:38:26 And the winner in all this? China of course. GG.
murder rank	Fri Jan 30 16:26:41 "murder, except they do if your talking about the Islamic Republic of Iran." My point was that come next week you won't care. You'll be spewing bullshit in defense of Trump's actions like you just did ... "They didn't replace him. Not yet. They enforced a warrant for his arrest. If he is found innocent I'm sure he can go back." ... with Venezuela. -
Sam Adams rank	Fri Jan 30 18:50:10 "is then possible to go to war against the regime, but not the country." Sure. Especially in cases where you have an unelected dictator like Maduro or Iran. Trump of course isn't in that class of retards yet.
Sam Adams rank	Fri Jan 30 18:52:54 "Maduro was outside of US jurisdiction and the US had no legal means of enforcing the warrant. " Lol recent history has proved you completely wrong. Maduro was very much within the jurisdiction of the US military and that was all legal since Maduro was a retarded tyrant.
Forwyn rank	Fri Jan 30 19:00:14 Much better to drop missiles on their last known location, attempting to assassinate them several times, until you have degraded their defenses sufficiently to allow an Islamist mob to lynch them.
Habebe rank	Fri Jan 30 19:00:27 I may have spoken too soon....lol https://ap...44abc4782ff74352654077615ef012 Apparently wine has been accused of kidnapping himself.
patom rank	Fri Jan 30 19:26:54 As if Maduro was the real target. The question should be is where are these bank accounts where Trump is depositing the money from the sale of oil that was pirated on the high seas? Another question is how soon will Trump send our troops into Venezuela to secure the oil fields?
jergul rank	Fri Jan 30 19:39:09 Yes, sammy, like I said. It is refreshing that we have moved passed a rules based order. Why you bother with those pathetic justifications is beyond me. Anyone can do whatever they like. And China wins. GG.
Sam Adams rank	Fri Jan 30 19:41:32 Jergul you are taking the fall of soviet bloc power and the continued rise of american power very poorly. It's funny.
jergul rank	Fri Jan 30 19:42:45 Continued rise of Chinese power* Fixed that for you sammy.
Sam Adams rank	Fri Jan 30 19:46:29 So you are abandoning rooting for Russia and Russian proxies and switching to China? Russia failed so many times that even you are no longer supporting them? Lmfao.
jergul rank	Fri Jan 30 21:28:15 China has 50 times the shipbuilding capacity of the US. You do the math. If you remember how.
Pillz rank	Fri Jan 30 21:38:22 It does appear as though the Chinese will beat the zionist american empire in the long run - which just means humanity is plunged back into the stone age and slowly driven to extinction. Maybe (((((Cherub Cow))))) can explain how the jews avoid the fate of humanity. Lizard DNA, perhaps?
Sam Adams rank	Fri Jan 30 22:52:14 So that's a yes jergul?
jergul rank	Fri Jan 30 22:59:09 Nope.
Habebe rank	Sat Jan 31 00:56:37 So, that's its own thread, but Chinese dominance is not assured. It's economy has drastically cooled down in growth, basic stabilization and moving wo what we would call 2nd/1st world means you can have crazy growth. Japan was thought to ovwrtake the US for years, then an aging population hit them. China has a demographics problem of an aging population and its compounded with the one child policy and shrinking population growth, even the Chinese don't want to fuck the Chinese anymore. India has actually beat them out as the world's most populous nation. Meanwhile the US has done something IMHO thats amazing.... "In 1990, the United States accounted for roughly 26 percent of global gross domestic product. More than three decades later, and after repeated predictions of China’s inevitable overtaking, the US share remains virtually unchanged at about 25.9 percent, assuming Beijing’s own growth figures are accurate. That consistency matters because the global economy is far larger today than it was at the end of the Cold War, with US output alone reaching an estimated $30.62 trillion in 2025. The contrast with America’s closest allies is stark. When the Cold War ended, Britain, France, Italy, Japan and Canada together represented around 32 percent of global GDP. Today, that combined share has fallen to below 14 percent. This relative contraction reflects weaker productivity growth, demographic pressure and prolonged underinvestment, particularly in Europe and Japan." https://ww.../amp_articleshow/126508653.cms
Habebe rank	Sat Jan 31 01:02:21 Now, the US has its own problems, that GDP growth for example hasn't been seen evenly, as the super rich control like 40% of US GDP. But as far as being able to throw our weight around, we still have that. What Europeans don't often get is IMO, is that is sort of the trade off. We don't have the financial social benefits and such as Europe, but the US gets to throw it's weight around to benefit our citizens (well, semi-ideally) I'm not saying it's right, I'm not here to argue that...but I get it.
kargen rank	Sat Jan 31 04:02:38 "Maduro was outside of US jurisdiction and the US had no legal means of enforcing the warrant." Either way it doesn't change what I said. He wasn't a recognised leader of the country.
murder rank	Sat Jan 31 04:23:26 He was recognized in Venezuela. -
Sam Adams rank	Sat Jan 31 05:55:56 No he wasn't. Not by any more than his secret police at least.
jergul rank	Sat Jan 31 09:21:01 Yes he was. You are a silly person sammy. Just apply repriocity. Lots of americans think the US election was stolen in 2021. Does that mean Biden was the illegitimate president of the US? Nope. You are confounding several things. Sure, and election can be unfair and the wrong guy wins. But the mechanisms that chose the president are entirely in the hands of Venezuela. Whatever it says is the outcome, is the outcome. Venezuela gets to decide who its president is. Now, the opposition can challenge this or rise in revolt if it likes. What it does is none of our business. Non-involvement is critical to avoid spiralling, open-ended civil wars. The thing to negotiate then is non-involvement. For States also have to pull their security and military support of the regime.
murder rank	Sat Jan 31 09:39:41 "No he wasn't. Not by any more than his secret police at least." You have to be pretty thick to believe that Maduro couldn't win the election legitimately when nearly 8 million of the opposition have fled the country and are living in exile. -
Sam Adams rank	Sat Jan 31 19:26:07 " 8 million of the opposition have fled the country and are living in exile." Such democracy. Mucho legitimate.
murder rank	Sat Jan 31 22:57:43 You propose that he bar people from leaving? -
kargen rank	Sat Jan 31 23:14:59 "He was recognized in Venezuela." Well sure people would see his picture and know who he was. They would say hey look it is Maduro, the illegitimate leader of the country. Well, they wouldn't say it for fear of being disappeared but they would think it. A guess by my UN argument Taiwan would still be a province of China and it gets treated as independent by US and most of the EU in everything but name. So maybe that wasn't the best argument. United Nations aside the government of Venezuela barred Machado from running and she still got more votes than Maduro. He wasn't elected he stayed in power by force. Most of Venezuela celebrated him being removed while only slightly less than half might celebrate Trump being removed.
murder rank	Sun Feb 01 00:11:16 "... the government of Venezuela barred Machado from running and she still got more votes than Maduro." And how did you arrive at that conclusion? "Most of Venezuela celebrated him being removed while only slightly less than half might celebrate Trump being removed." And how did you determine that?
Im better then you rank	Sun Feb 01 01:46:07 AI videos
murder rank	Sun Feb 01 01:48:40 I would love to know who besides the Venezuelan government handled the ballots and counted the votes.
Rugian rank	Sun Feb 01 02:43:04 Academics, news outlets and the opposition provided strong evidence showing that González won the election by a wide margin[12][13][14] with the opposition releasing copies of official tally sheets collected by poll watchers from a majority of polling centers showing a landslide victory for González.[8][15][16] The National Electoral Council (CNE) announced[17] falsified[18][19] results claiming a narrow Maduro victory on 29 July; vote tallies were not provided.[20] The Carter Center was unable to verify the CNE's results, asserting the election failed to meet international democratic election standards.[21] The CNE's results were rejected by the OAS,[8] and the United Nations declared that there was "no precedent in contemporary democratic elections" for announcing a winner without providing tabulated results.[22] Analyses by media sources found the CNE results statistically improbable and lacking in credibility.[23][24][18] Parallel vote tabulation confirmed the win by González.[25][26][27] Political scientist Steven Levitsky called the official results "one of the most egregious electoral frauds in modern Latin American history".[28]
murder rank	Sun Feb 01 04:47:01 Lots of people say things ... but unless someone counted the votes and got a different result, claiming that anyone else won is just people asserting what they want to believe. I'll say it again, 8,000,000 members of the opposition left the country. If there was mass opposition to Maduro, he would not have been able to survive since he isn't exactly Saddam Hussein let alone Stalin when it comes to burying his enemies. -
Rugian rank	Sun Feb 01 05:29:19 Glazing Maduro is a bad look even for you amigo.
jergul rank	Sun Feb 01 10:00:06 Unfree and unfair is fine to claim ruggy. But, well, the votes that were counted gave Maduro the victory. Blatantly stating someone else actually won is right up there with the usual unfounded claims that your Government is so good at. Anyway, who cares? Why do you even bother with justifications at this point? Trump will do whatever he likes.
jergul rank	Sun Feb 01 10:02:46 The whole assumption that legitimacy correlates to the level of democracy is silly. For example, your elections are regularly stolen in that sense every time the popular vote was won by someone that lost the election.
murder rank	Sun Feb 01 10:13:01 I'm not glazing anyone. I just spent decades living through the same bullshit (minus actual elections) with Cuba. For decades all you heard from the right was how unpopular Fidel was and how his government was ready to topple at any moment because the people were tired of being poor. Fidel died of old age after 57 years in power ... and a decade later his government is STILL there. Protests are tiny. You can argue with hard facts all day long, but facts don't care about your feelings. Where are the celebrations of Maduro's toppling? Where are the masses taking to the streets to drive out Maduro's government? It should be pretty easy to organize protests with a supposed majority and the US military hanging around to smash Venezuelan security forces if they try to crack down. So where are the masses? Even the Venezuelans in South Florida barely celebrated ... mostly because they are worried about being sent home now. -
	show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message: