Utopia Talk / Politics / Home prices are falling finally

Habebe rank	Sat Jun 20 02:14:29 A mix of zoning restrictions and poor housing management have led to some crazy prices. Glad to see them start to fall. This does seem to be anothwr situation where the market is HIGHLY regulated and government controlled and yet if you mention the idea of government solutions to housing costs people start screaming "FrEe MaRkEt" As if people can just build any sort of safe housing they want without loads of government restrictions. This was my argument with healthcare, they want a a "free market" on pricing, but everything else has to be government controlled, where you can buy, who can supply, who can you buy from, licensed etc. If it's illegal to buy from say Canada, its retarded to claim free market to price meds as you wish.
Dukhat rank	Sat Jun 20 06:46:14 GOP - Government for me not thee.
Sam Adams rank	Sat Jun 20 06:57:00 Most people want single family homes in quiet safe neighborhoods with only SFH neighbors... So that's the zoning you are going to see dominate and that takes up a lot of space. So you are space limited. And then it costs a lot to make and outfit a nice house. Having an entire generation that became whiny activists rather than carpenters and electricians does not help.
murder rank	Sat Jun 20 16:57:42 They need to let people off the coast build as tall as they want as long as it fits on their property and it's safe ... with no regard to parking. The market can take it from there. -
Habebe rank	Sat Jun 20 21:10:05 Sam, The problems with single family homes (Philly its 88%) is it preserves property prices, but it's artificially keeping them unaffordable. New home buyers are over 40 now. Starter homes cost over 1 million. Homelessness is on the rise, because people can't afford homes. Vienna has a thing where 40% of housing is government housing, which is going to put downward pressure on all home values. Philly rent is crazy, Like 75k house at 1500-2k a month.
Habebe rank	Sat Jun 20 21:32:11 Sam, The problems with single family homes (Philly its 88%) is it preserves property prices, but it's artificially keeping them unaffordable. New home buyers are over 40 now. Starter homes cost over 1 million. Homelessness is on the rise, because people can't afford homes. There is clear demand for apartment buildings and such. Which, would ease financial pressure on Vienna has a thing where 40% of housing is government housing, which is going to put downward pressure on all home values. Philly rent is crazy, Like 75k house at 1500-2k a month.
williamthebastard rank	Sat Jun 20 21:43:51 I dont get why they dont all buy nice homes, then just declare bankruptcy and live happily ever after?
Habebe rank	Sat Jun 20 21:50:04 You need to het the loan first.
williamthebastard rank	Sat Jun 20 21:53:00 Oh, you mean like the roughly half a million Americans each year that get the loan and then cant afford to pay it back? Right. So, I dont get why they dont all get a loan for a nice home, then just declare bankruptcy and live happily ever after?
Sam Adams rank	Sat Jun 20 21:53:09 "The market can take it from there." The market has spoken. It has allowed neighbors to enter into agreements that permanently lock into place the low crime uncrowded beautiful nature of the neighborhoods. This is what everyone wants. That is why it is expensive. Demand is high and supply is limited. Plus the price has other benefits. It keeps out black people, sebs migrants, and other riff raff and scum, and thus makes the neighborhood a very enjoyable place to live. You are never going to get people to give that up without first reducing the crime rate massively.
Sam Adams rank	Sat Jun 20 22:00:43 ”Vienna has a thing where 40% of housing is government housing" Vienna has no black people, and Europeans are used to being poor and living in small old apartments with no AC and no cars. what works there isn't going to work in Philly.
Habebe rank	Sat Jun 20 22:18:06 Wtb, I know you don't get it's cool, add it to the book of things you don't know. Sam, Yes and no. Where do people WANT to live themselves? Like 90% want SFHs. Now, if you ask people if we should zone more apartment buildings and such, it's like 50-80% say they support that. That number drops closer to 30% if you add in their neighborhood. If the idea was marketed with the intent of lowering housing costs, you could probably.get more.non homemowners on board. It's a mix of incentives, but housing costs have just been going up too rapidly to keep up with wages, causing it's own problems (rise of homelessness for example.) It's literally to the point where working doesn't make you well off anymore, owning property does. There is a rule where if you improve a home and live there (I think for 20 years) it becomes yours if it isn't contested. Alot of mexicans move into bandos and fix them up here, I doubt they apply for ownership via that route though.
Sam Adams rank	Sat Jun 20 23:49:08 As the population expands, and desirable neighborhoods in our big older cities do not, the cost of those neighborhoods must expand faster than inflation. More people are going to need city apartments in those cities without cars. OR you can develop smaller suburban areas into larger ones, where you still have room to expand. Move to Atlanta. The number of new subdivisions visible as you fly into that airport stretches as far as the eye can see. https://ww...4-Siena-Pl-30135/home/28460391 4bd 3ba 3k sqft 1+ acre land brand new in a new suburb. That's a solid house. Certainly not a starter home. Where I live that's a solid 1.8M dollar home. Maybe 2. In the growing burbs of Atlanta 500k.
Sam Adams rank	Sat Jun 20 23:52:38 https://ww...Harmony-Dr-30115/home/23646528 Lmao at those Atlanta houses. That's fucking nuts how cheap that is for what you get.
murder rank	Sun Jun 21 01:38:13 "The market has spoken. It has allowed neighbors to enter into agreements that permanently lock into place the low crime uncrowded beautiful nature of the neighborhoods." Home owners associations and condos/condo associations should be outlawed. You're neighbors should mind their own property. Then the market can speak freely. -
Habebe rank	Sun Jun 21 01:39:18 Yeah a large 5 bedroom for under 1 Million? That's actually not bad. I could be ok with Atlanta. Philly specifically, NEEDS apartment building's. Certain parts probably need like studio apartments just to get people into homes and out of the streets/shelters. Transportation in the city is great, but once you go towards more suburban areas, you NEED a car. Me personally Im ok with it, Ive driven my whole life. But I know so many people here that not only don't drive, they never have plus driving in the city is horrible for so many reasons. Our population has been growing considerably faster than available housing.
Sam Adams rank	Sun Jun 21 02:13:10 I'm talking about zoning murder. Everyone here agrees there will be no industrial plant or huge apartment complex next door. It's that simple. We have spoken.
jergul rank	Sun Jun 21 11:19:29 #eminent domain
murder rank	Sun Jun 21 15:54:20 Those zoning laws are oppressive. That's not the free market. That's collectivism. -
jergul rank	Sun Jun 21 17:22:38 Incorporations are happening on too small a scale if homeowner associations can basically control municipal zoning and force undesirable activity to take place outside of the township. Though more likely it is probably just corruption and councils are being bought off.
Forwyn rank	Sun Jun 21 19:13:56 "Suburbs should not be allowed to exist, use the government to steal it and make megahousing" jergul, from his barren fishing village
Sam Adams rank	Sun Jun 21 21:11:16 "Those zoning laws are oppressive." No. These zoning laws are exactly what everyone in these neighborhoods wants. Do you want an oil refinery next door? Or public housing?
jergul rank	Mon Jun 22 11:25:26 Forwyn Nah, suburbs are fine for as long as affordable housing has space. What you needs is planninng authorities large enough to zone appropriately to societal needs without being corrupted by special interests.
jergul rank	Mon Jun 22 11:37:40 Habebe Its the number of households, not the population. Your population is growing by 0,5%. The number of households is growing by 1.5%. You can infer that households are growing smaller. Mcmansions may not be the cookie cutter that meet all needs like it used to be. Factually, the US has 28 vacant residences per homeless person. A lot of the drivers here is centralization that renders small towns uninhabitable for the work-aged population. Vacation homes more a symptom than part of the problem (why sell a house you can used on vacation if you are going to get very little money for it?). With that said, state level solutions are likely to involve public housing at a significant scale. Perhaps up towards 40% of primary residences should be covered that way. High % is important as it normalizes that kind of living and counter-acts ghettofication.
Habebe rank	Mon Jun 22 17:00:17 Jergul, I was talking about Philadelphia, I should have specified that. More specificall, recently the issue is more the housing being built isn't matching the incomes. Philly specifically, needs lower and middle income housing. Im not talking about building apartments in the suburbs, Im talking about philly having way too many homeless and near homeless people. I know elderly people on long waiting lists to get housing..... one guy has been living in a shelter for over a year, and he works, he had his apartment ready, but it was ready literally 2 months before he turned 62, so at the last minute he was disqualified and had to reapply instead of just pushing it back 2 months until he was eligible, how dumb is that? Even the people who have places and can afford it, its eating up 30%+ or even 50%+ of their income.
jergul rank	Mon Jun 22 17:09:22 Well, it is always sunny there, so bound to be some competition. I think I answered for Philly. More public houosing.
	show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message: