Utopia Talk / Sports / Cavs are beasts!

Visably Shaken Member	Fri Jan 22 23:04:21 That is all.
Visably Shaken Member	Fri Jan 22 23:04:49 of course, so are calves.
nhill Member	Sat Jan 23 11:37:01 k
Visably Shaken Member	Fri Feb 05 00:45:52 Beasts! I tells ya'.
Milton Bradley Member	Fri Feb 05 09:47:05 I felt bad for Dwyane Wade watching that game last night. The rest of his team sucks so bad... Not only are they terrible, but they are also lazy and give zero effort. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I could start at PG for the Cavs and they would still win.
Visably Shaken Member	Fri Feb 05 09:59:52 Jumboliers picked a strange time to start a winning streak...what with the injuries and all. And Lebron starting at PG is just...fuck.
licker Sports Mod	Fri Feb 05 15:59:48 *yawn* Cavs got fucking owned by a shitty orlando team last year, this year they'll probably get owned by a shitty atlanta team. LeBron is fucking amazing, but the rest of that team is so shitty that I don't see them getting through 3 7 game series against playoff teams, let alone beating a healthy Lakers team. Then again maybe the Lakers will never get healthy.
Milton Bradley Member	Fri Feb 05 16:10:32 Err... they dont have to get through 3 playoff teams... Just two. 1st round series against the Bucks/Knicks/Heat doesnt really count. A 2nd round series against Boston/Toronto/Atlanta barely counts. Pretty much if they can beat Orlando then they are the east winners.
licker Sports Mod	Fri Feb 05 16:53:55 I think it counts, because I think the Cavs are shit after lebron. Their other starters wouldn't even start for the Nets, that how shitty they are.
Milton Bradley Member	Fri Feb 05 17:00:06 They are not that bad. Bad, yes, but not terrible. The Nets whole team is terrible.
dung beetle Member	Fri Feb 05 23:58:31 lol @ licker...just a cleveland hater. u don't know shit about nothin if thats yer opinion of the cavaliers. they own everyone at every position, down the line and through the bench. and powe is yet to arrive. it's a good team. true much remains to be seen, but you are a weak, pathetic troll
licker Sports Mod	Sat Feb 06 10:18:02 That's why cleveland with the same team as last season basically, got rolled by the Magic? The support around James sucks, all of those guys are washed up or never were's. If he doesn't leave it's because someone in Cleveland can blackmail him about being a homosexual or something.
Palem Person.	Sat Feb 06 20:26:13 Why would he leave? He has a team, build around him, that is good enough to consistently compete for the best record in the NBA. And the same team as last year? LOL. Maybe you should watch ESPN or something. They got this big black guy named Shaq.
Visably Shaken Member	Sat Feb 06 22:10:20 Definitely not the exact same team. and verajao is shit? williams is shit? shaq is shit? west is shit? z? moon and hickson and gibson, all shit, huh? Well welcome to shitsville bumpkin...you ain't gonna last around here.
Visably Shaken Member	Sat Feb 06 22:14:09 lol...I get it now. you've never even seen basketball before and you're just an excellent troll. That explains why the only name you have is LeBron...who hasn't heard that name? 10/10
Visably Shaken Member	Sat Feb 06 22:15:51 11 in a row baby! man these injuries are killing them :P
Visably Shaken Member	Sat Feb 06 22:21:04 February 7th, 2010 | Issue 42â?¢50 | AP Press LOS ANGELESâ??Lakers guard Kobe Bryant was visibly shaken, angry, and confused at center court of the Staples Center Friday night when the basketball that he held so close for most of the game was suddenly and inexplicably passed away. â??It feels like I was just holding it in my hands a second ago, and now itâ??s gone,â?? said a tearful Bryant, who admitted he â??just wasnâ??t ready to let go.â?? â??I wish I could say itâ??s in a better place now, but honestly, Iâ??m not sure I can make myself believe that.â?? Bryant later promised that, should he ever get close to another ball, he would make sure that something like this would never happen again.
licker Sports Mod	Sat Feb 06 22:21:50 Wow. So a 50 year old 500 pound shaq is your answer? lol... Everyone on the cavs not named LeBron is shit. Deal with it. It's funny that you are so deluded still by this. The team brings in no one to remotely help LeBron, and he through his own force of will makes shit players look decent. But like I said, none of those fucks is starting for any other team in the NBA, even the shitasitc Nets.
Visably Shaken Member	Sat Feb 06 22:23:25 kthx
licker Sports Mod	Sun Feb 07 09:39:28 bye
Visably Shaken Member	Thu Feb 11 22:57:40 So...that's, what, 13 wins in a row?
licker Sports Mod	Thu Feb 11 22:58:24 *yawn* wake us up when they win 13 in a row in the post season
Madc0w Member	Thu Feb 11 23:09:02 Capitals won 14 in a row. kpwnt
Milton Bradley Member	Fri Feb 12 20:22:07 2006-2007 Suns won 17 in a row, lost 1 game, and then won 15 in a row. And they didnt even make it out of the 2nd round.
licker Sports Mod	Thu Feb 18 22:21:12 Cavs got fucking owned by a real team. Just like what will happen in the playoffs.
Palem Person.	Thu Feb 18 22:52:55 We beat the lakers twice. They aren't a real team? Losing in overtime is getting owned? go away
Dakyron Member	Fri Feb 19 09:35:57 Losing is losing. Losing at home = getting owned. LBJ - 43 pts, 13 rebounds, 15 assists and you still lose because the rest of your team sucks. Imagine if he had a real team.
Palem Person.	Fri Feb 19 13:17:31 Where did I say they didn't lose? They played a good team, played a good game, and lost. Shit happens. Getting owned = losing by 20. Not by 2 in overtime. If you're gonna be a jackass do it somewhere else.
licker Sports Mod	Fri Feb 19 14:02:54 lol... my how touchy the cavs fans are about this. the team runs off a bunch of wins against crap teams, plays a good team, lebron has one of the best games in the history of the league, and they still lose why? because like we've been saying after lebron that team doesn't have a single player who would start for anyone else, they suck and now you're banking on a 50 year old jamison to help out? lol... so screwed, so fucking screwed
Palem Person.	Fri Feb 19 14:26:11 You must think there's only 1 good team in the league or something. The cavs beat plenty of good times on that streak. Mo is damn good. Shaq is one of the best players of this decade. Parker is damn good. Maybe if you actually watched some of the games and not just the highlights, you'd know some of this. We're relying on Jamison? LOL. We were one of the best teams in the league before we got him, and now we're relying on him? Right. We get it. You don't like the cavs. Go away.
Dakyron Member	Fri Feb 19 14:32:40 Shaq sucks. Whatever he provides on offense is lost on his pathetic defense. I watched him all of last year. The Suns traded Shawn Marion for Shaq and went from 1st place to 9th place. 'nuff said about the big adulterer. Mo Williams can hit a wide open. So can 90% of the NBA. Congrats on finding a player who doesnt completely suck, I know its unusual to do so in Cleveland. Anthony Parker was a bench player on the Raptors. He serves his role well. Basically, he tries on defense and makes open 3s. So can plenty of other players. He is nothing special. Antawn Jamison is 33 years old. He isnt terrible, but this is the best player on a lottery team the last two years. He was a 6th man when he played in Dallas. Nice pickup, but dont kid yourself. The fact is that if LeBron James broke his leg tomorrow, the Cavs wouldnt make it out of the first round. We both know this.
Palem Person.	Fri Feb 19 14:39:21 I'm not denying that. But it's not like the cavs without Lebron would become the nets. They have quality players that do their jobs. Shaq's job is to be a big, physical body on the boards and he goes that. Mo, West, and Parker's jobs are to get open and hit 3's when people try to double/triple team lebron and they do that. Do the Cavs have a MJ-Bulls-like team yet? Even I have to say hell no, but they're getting there. They're a hell of a lot better off than they were 2 years ago as far as players outside of Lebron.
Palem Person.	Fri Feb 19 14:40:06 he does* that
Dakyron Member	Fri Feb 19 14:45:19 "But it's not like the cavs without Lebron would become the nets" The Nets are statistically the worst team in the NBA. No, the Cavs - LBJ would be like the Wizards. Shitty, but capable of beating mediocre teams on a good night. "Shaq's job is to be a big, physical body on the boards and he goes that. " Yeah, I suppose thats why Denver killed the Cavs on the boards last night. Kenyon Martin's corpse grabbed 17 rebounds. Like I said, I watched Shaq play last season. He has a monster game about once every two weeks. Similarly, he sucks on back to backs or long road trips.
Palem Person.	Fri Feb 19 14:50:02 He's getting old, what do you expect?
licker Sports Mod	Fri Feb 19 17:36:20 "You must think there's only 1 good team in the league or something." Actually right now I think there are zero good teams considering that Kobe seems to be more hurt than they are telling anyone. But to the point, I think that there are probably 4-5 better teams than the Cavs right now, and certainly who will be able to beat them in the playoffs unless LeBron is able to have 16 dominate games in him where the shittyness of his teammates doesn't even matter. "Mo is damn good. " roflmao... Mo Peterson? Oh you mean that sack of shit Williams who disappears in big games, but can light it up when no one guards him and there's no pressure. "Shaq is one of the best players of this decade. " Umm... What the fuck does that have to do with the Shaq of 2010? "Parker is damn good. " tony Parker? Oh you mean that bench scrub. Wow, you listed a whopping 3! players 2 of whom outright suck and one of whom provides hustle. Great, like I said, LeBrons supporting cast SUCKS and would be starting anywhere (and didn't start anywhere if you remember). "Maybe if you actually watched some of the games and not just the highlights, you'd know some of this. " Maybe if you didn't have your homer goggles on you'd realize just how litte Cleveland has actually done to give LeBron any meaningful support. fuck, the Cavs don't suck, but their players starting with their 2nd best certainly do. "We're relying on Jamison? LOL. We were one of the best teams in the league before we got him, and now we're relying on him? " LTR. you are relying on him to provide that #2 punch that the Cavs have never had. Never. Clearly everyone here thinks the Cavs will go into the playoffs with the #1 seed (in the east anyway), but that as soon as they have to play a 7 game series against another top4 team they will get exposed. Because while LeBron can win you a game here or there on his own, it's much harder to win 4 out of 7 when the rest of your team isn't giving you shit. Remember what happened last season? And the season before? Fuck the Cavs were 'better' than the Magic, by far, everyone thought so. Until they played and everyone realized that the Cavs couldn't do shit unless LeBron did it all. Same story, different year. Simply put, the Cavs have not added anyone who makes a difference. "We get it. You don't like the cavs. Go away. " I don't like the Cavs actually, but I like LeBron and think its a travesty that they refuse to find him decent players to help him. Look at the Lakers after Shaq left. Kobe was the best in the NBA but they couldn't do shit until they brought in Gasol. With Gasol they are the best team in the NBA (when everyone is healthy), and that sucks, because I really do hate the Lakers. But they have good management and a good coach. They aren't fucking retarded doing nothing and hoping their stud can carry a bunch of bench scrubs to a championship. Well they tried it for a couple years, and then realized it wasn't working so they fixed the problem. The Cavs are going to lose LeBron and it's their own damn stupid fault.
licker Sports Mod	Fri Feb 19 17:37:20 " and would be starting anywhere " *wouldn't
licker Sports Mod	Fri Feb 19 20:45:58 And now a blow out against Charlotte... You see what we're telling you? If LeBron is off at all that team is toast.
Dakyron Member	Mon Feb 22 09:47:43 Cavs lost to the Magic... again...
licker Sports Mod	Mon Feb 22 13:49:35 lol... poor Palem, starts defending his team and they immediately go out and drop 3 games Hey at least you're better than Boston though. The Celtics suck this year.
Visibly Shaken Member	Wed Feb 24 02:58:28 James, Jamison end Cavsâ?? skid with win vs. Hornets
Visably Shaken Member	Fri Feb 26 00:37:31
Visably Shaken Member	Fri Feb 26 00:38:25 Nice win over the celtics.
licker Sports Mod	Fri Feb 26 09:23:23 The celtics suck, don't let their record fool you. They beat up on crap teams and stink against good teams.
Dakyron Member	Fri Feb 26 09:54:55 Celtics team is collectively older than Gandalf.
Palem Person.	Fri Feb 26 10:55:38 The Cavs haven't played a good basketball game since the break.
Visibly Shaken Member	Fri Feb 26 20:38:57 They're getting on track again...and Z is gonna be back!
Visibly Shaken Member	Sat Feb 27 21:42:53 I guess boston does suck, licker.
licker Sports Mod	Sat Feb 27 22:40:57 They totally suck. Old and that locker room is being ripped in two because the old farts don't realize that Rondo is the future. If they win a round in the playoffs I'll be surprised.
Palem Person.	Sat Feb 27 22:58:01 They'll have to play a team that they can sweep. If it goes past 5 games, they've got no chance in hell.
Visibly Shaken Member	Tue Mar 02 03:00:21 Shaq who? Of course 74 points in a half against the knicks is ok. Who really thinks LBJ is gonna bolt this summer? It ain't happening. In fact, watch dwayne wade come to cleveland, haha.
licker Sports Mod	Tue Mar 02 18:28:25 "In fact, watch dwayne wade come to cleveland, haha. " Not possible unless Wade want's to play for nothing. Best rumor so far is Wade, Bosh, and LeBron to the Knicks, each taking a large pay cut, but Nike (who they are all signed with) giving them some extra dough for the massive marketing potential of all 3 of them on the same team in NYC. Of course I also read that LeBron wants to go to LA and play with Kobe. If that happens I think I may just stop watching the NBA for a few years.
kendal Member	Wed Mar 03 09:35:48 There is no way LeBron goes to LA. I doubt he goes anywhere in the Western Conference. Easier to get to the finals in the East.
licker Sports Mod	Wed Mar 03 09:41:14 Well one would think that playing with Kobe and Gasol on the Lakers would be a printed ticket to the finals as well...
Milton Bradley Member	Wed Mar 03 09:44:48 Too many egos. They wont team up with another superstar because one of them wouldnt get enough shots. Wade to Chicago, LeBron and Bosh to New York, Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson to Miami.
Visibly Shaken Member	Wed Mar 03 12:57:35 "Best rumor so far is Wade, Bosh, and LeBron to the Knicks, each taking a large pay cut, but Nike (who they are all signed with) giving them some extra dough..." How about charlotte? Then jordan and nike could really control the world?
kendal Member	Wed Mar 03 13:33:06 Charlotte is too small a market, and they dont have capspace. They are paying DeSagana Diop over $26 million over the next 4 seasons, including this one, to play 10 minutes a game of suck. Jordan picked a crappy team to buy.
Visibly Shaken Member	Thu Mar 04 00:04:04 Jordan wouldn't abide Lebron anyways. I was kind of trying to make a joke. I have faith that LeBron will stay in cleveland because it would lend integrity to his brand, and branding isd what it's all about. Think of the feel good story of a hometown god bringing joy to a depressed third world region! Lebron stays and another big name gets signed first. Somehow the cavs can exceed the cap to keep LeBron. Thats why the new star has to sign first. Wade could easily come to cleveland. Other than the town, it is a first class place to play basketball. And the burbs are pretty fucking nice to live in. I guess the weather sucks if that even enters into it. And as for media, how much bigger can LeBron get? well, a lot bigger. and in this day and age he can do it right from cleveland. Think about it: NYC isn't in china either. know what i mean? So fuck all the talk of him leaving. i don't think he will. Let's hope he has a little class left. cavs over lakers in six.
kendal Member	Thu Mar 04 02:14:44 I dont think he will leave either, but I dont think the Cavs can sign another big free agent on top of resigning him. Unless they do a sign and trade, but whatever.
licker Sports Mod	Thu Mar 04 13:10:35 " and in this day and age he can do it right from cleveland" Incorrect.
Visibly Shaken Member	Thu Mar 04 22:54:59 " and in this day and age he can do it right from cleveland" Actually, that statement is factually correct, unless you know of a reason why New york has any advantage in creating star power and global branding.
Visibly Shaken Member	Fri Mar 05 00:57:49 CLEVELAND (AP)â??Zydrunas Ilgauskas(notes) has forgiven the Cleveland Cavaliers. Feeling betrayed after he was traded last month, Ilgauskas wants to return to the only NBA team he has played for to help it win a championship. Ilgauskas, the towering center known to Cleveland fans simply as â??Z,â?? told his agent Herb Rudoy to begin negotiations with the Cavs on March 22â??the first day he can sign. â??The NBA rules do not allow any contract discussions until that date,â?? Rudoy said in an e-mail to The Associated Press. â??It is Zydrunasâ?? desire to return to the Cavaliers if a suitable contract can be agreed upon.â?? Itâ??s likely the Cavs will accept him back with open arms. General manager Danny Ferry agonized over the decision to trade Ilgauskas, a former teammate, close friend and the franchiseâ??s leader in rebounds and games played, to Washington as part of the deal for forward Antawn Jamison(notes). Now, Ferry has a chance to make everything right. Plus, with Shaquille Oâ??Neal(notes) sidelined for at least another six weeks with a thumb injury, the Cavs need the 7-foot-3 Ilgauskas more than ever. After being traded on Feb. 17, Ilgauskas never played for the Wizards. He bought out his contract from the club, making him a free agent and clearing him to sign with any other team after 30 days. But despite interest from several playoff contenders, including Atlanta, Dallas and Denver, the 34-year-old wants to return to Cavs, who drafted him in 1996. Earlier this week, a few of the Cavaliers took advantage of a game in New Jersey to visit Ilgauskas, who has a place in New Yorkâ??s SoHo district. Rudoy said Ferry also stopped in recently to meet with Ilgauskas, who has received hundreds of e-mails and letters from Cleveland fans urging him to come back. â??He has been overwhelmed and deeply touched by the outpouring of support and affection by the fans and by his teammates,â?? Rudoy said. â??He hopes to return to bring a championship to the Cavaliers and to the city of Cleveland.â??
Palem Person.	Fri Mar 05 12:12:33 talk about spicing a story up, christ Z wasn't betrayed. He knew the deal just like everyone with half a brain knew the deal.
licker Sports Mod	Fri Mar 05 13:35:29 "unless you know of a reason why New york has any advantage in creating star power and global branding. " roflmao... Are you fucking kidding me?
Visibly Shaken Member	Fri Mar 05 23:00:49 no sir.
licker Sports Mod	Fri Mar 05 23:42:40 Ok, then let us know when TMZ and it's ilk open a branch in Cleveland. roflamo...
Visibly Shaken Member	Sun Mar 07 01:40:25 Don't really need to have one down the street anymore, or hadn't you noticed how small the world has gotten?
licker Sports Mod	Sun Mar 07 12:21:10 You're delusional if you think that Cleveland is remotely close to NYC or LA in terms of being a benefit for 'branding'. No one is going to Cleveland because it's Cleveland. Indeed the opposite is actually true.
Dakyron Member	Mon Mar 08 09:26:16 Any young millionaire who chooses to live in Cleveland is an idiot. No one could possibly argue otherwise. NYC, LA, or Miami. If he goes anywhere else he is just plain stupid.
Visibly Shaken Member	Mon Mar 08 22:45:32 No one could possibly argue otherwise.
Palem Person.	Thu Mar 11 17:40:43 -He has a team built around him already -He is from Akron -He has a city that idolizes him like a god that also has no other winning sports team. -He has plenty of money -He can avoid trouble the paparazzi -He has a crazy-ridiculous house in the area but you're right, he's got no reason to stay.
Dakyron Member	Thu Mar 11 20:13:03 You realize he could build a house anywhere he wants, right?
Palem Person.	Thu Mar 11 20:43:24 Yep.
licker Sports Mod	Thu Mar 11 21:20:19 -He has a team built around him already A shitty team. -He is from Akron Akron is not cleveland -He has a city that idolizes him like a god that also has no other winning sports team. He'd be idolized anywhere, and who gives a fuck if there are other 'winning' teams or not? -He has plenty of money Of course, but it's not about the money, it's about the 'brand', which is devalued if he keeps on fucking around in Cleveland not winning any titles. -He can avoid trouble the paparazzi Eh? Why would he want to avoid the paparazzi? Or, what other NBA stars in LA or NYC have problems with the paparazzi anyway? -He has a crazy-ridiculous house in the area Like daky said, he could build a crazy ridiculous house anywhere. Oh and, the house is in Cleveland, so that's kind of FAIL Look, he may stay, and if he does, more power to him, but trying to make the argument that he is better served in his 'brand' by staying if fucking retarded.
Palem Person.	Sun Mar 14 18:16:33 "Any young millionaire who chooses to live in Cleveland is an idiot. No one could possibly argue otherwise." I was addressing this. I didn't say he's better off staying in Cleveland, I said he's got reasons to stay.
Visibly Shaken Member	Wed Mar 31 23:38:56 "Still, James can continue to be a powerful force for Nike â?? likely in a place where he can win championships as soon as possible. If itâ??s about selling shoes and making more money, it appears like James doesnâ??t physically have to be on Madison Avenue next year" "Perhaps going to New York would sell more shoes, but heâ??d likely sell more shoes in China and other emerging markets, where volume really counts, if he wins championships. One of the reasons why James is far behind Bryant in China is that he isnâ??t revered as much because he doesnâ??t have the rings that Kobe has. In that case, it might make more sense for James to stay in Cleveland, who made it to the Finals in 2007 under James and, at 58-16, have the best record in the NBA." http://spo...s?slug=ys-cnbclebronnike033110
Visibly Shaken Member	Fri Apr 02 23:24:12 So, fuck all you haters...when the cavs bring home the ring this year, that's it. LeBron stays in Cleveland (which, despite your ignorance, is not the asshole of the universe), and the sports world shifts it's axis. No longer does LA or NYC matter as a location. The world is tiny now, and one place is as medi8a friendly as the next. Fuck Off, licker.
licker Sports Mod	Sat Apr 03 09:55:40 " The world is tiny now, and one place is as medi8a friendly as the next." This is so completely and ridiculously wrong that I think you must have been reading all the latest crap on why LeBron is leaving, ring or no ring. Look, I really don't care if he stays or goes, I really don't care if he wins the championship or not (since the teams I root for aren't going to do it this year, or probably any year this decade). I have been to Cleveland though, as well as LA and NYC and Boston, and, well alot of other big cities with NBA franchises. And I can absolutely tell you that compared to these other cities Cleveland is indeed a shithole. Ok, so it's better than Memphis or OKC... Big fucking deal, the entire midwest is a shit place to live, cities like LA, Miami, Phoenix do have advantages in getting FAs because they are relatively awesome to live in. I don't know if that really is a big factor to James or not, but it should be, because who the FUCK has Cleveland brought in to help him? We already know the answer to that...
Genocide Rod Member	Sun Apr 04 10:33:50 tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
Genocide Rod Member	Sun Apr 04 10:34:00 Welcome to the Utopia Forums! The current time is Sun Apr 04 10:33:51 2010 , You have 0 new messages. Chat on the IRC server here Utopia Talk / Sports / Cavs are beasts! Visably Shaken Member Fri Jan 22 23:04:21 That is all. Visably Shaken Member Fri Jan 22 23:04:49 of course, so are calves. nhill Member Sat Jan 23 11:37:01 k Visably Shaken Member Fri Feb 05 00:45:52 Beasts! I tells ya'. Milton Bradley Member Fri Feb 05 09:47:05 I felt bad for Dwyane Wade watching that game last night. The rest of his team sucks so bad... Not only are they terrible, but they are also lazy and give zero effort. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I could start at PG for the Cavs and they would still win. Visably Shaken Member Fri Feb 05 09:59:52 Jumboliers picked a strange time to start a winning streak...what with the injuries and all. And Lebron starting at PG is just...fuck. licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 05 15:59:48 *yawn* Cavs got fucking owned by a shitty orlando team last year, this year they'll probably get owned by a shitty atlanta team. LeBron is fucking amazing, but the rest of that team is so shitty that I don't see them getting through 3 7 game series against playoff teams, let alone beating a healthy Lakers team. Then again maybe the Lakers will never get healthy. Milton Bradley Member Fri Feb 05 16:10:32 Err... they dont have to get through 3 playoff teams... Just two. 1st round series against the Bucks/Knicks/Heat doesnt really count. A 2nd round series against Boston/Toronto/Atlanta barely counts. Pretty much if they can beat Orlando then they are the east winners. licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 05 16:53:55 I think it counts, because I think the Cavs are shit after lebron. Their other starters wouldn't even start for the Nets, that how shitty they are. Milton Bradley Member Fri Feb 05 17:00:06 They are not that bad. Bad, yes, but not terrible. The Nets whole team is terrible. dung beetle Member Fri Feb 05 23:58:31 lol @ licker...just a cleveland hater. u don't know shit about nothin if thats yer opinion of the cavaliers. they own everyone at every position, down the line and through the bench. and powe is yet to arrive. it's a good team. true much remains to be seen, but you are a weak, pathetic troll licker Sports Mod Sat Feb 06 10:18:02 That's why cleveland with the same team as last season basically, got rolled by the Magic? The support around James sucks, all of those guys are washed up or never were's. If he doesn't leave it's because someone in Cleveland can blackmail him about being a homosexual or something. Palem Person. Sat Feb 06 20:26:13 Why would he leave? He has a team, build around him, that is good enough to consistently compete for the best record in the NBA. And the same team as last year? LOL. Maybe you should watch ESPN or something. They got this big black guy named Shaq. Visably Shaken Member Sat Feb 06 22:10:20 Definitely not the exact same team. and verajao is shit? williams is shit? shaq is shit? west is shit? z? moon and hickson and gibson, all shit, huh? Well welcome to shitsville bumpkin...you ain't gonna last around here. Visably Shaken Member Sat Feb 06 22:14:09 lol...I get it now. you've never even seen basketball before and you're just an excellent troll. That explains why the only name you have is LeBron...who hasn't heard that name? 10/10 Visably Shaken Member Sat Feb 06 22:15:51 11 in a row baby! man these injuries are killing them :P Visably Shaken Member Sat Feb 06 22:21:04 February 7th, 2010 | Issue 42â?¢50 | AP Press LOS ANGELESâ??Lakers guard Kobe Bryant was visibly shaken, angry, and confused at center court of the Staples Center Friday night when the basketball that he held so close for most of the game was suddenly and inexplicably passed away. â??It feels like I was just holding it in my hands a second ago, and now itâ??s gone,â?? said a tearful Bryant, who admitted he â??just wasnâ??t ready to let go.â?? â??I wish I could say itâ??s in a better place now, but honestly, Iâ??m not sure I can make myself believe that.â?? Bryant later promised that, should he ever get close to another ball, he would make sure that something like this would never happen again. licker Sports Mod Sat Feb 06 22:21:50 Wow. So a 50 year old 500 pound shaq is your answer? lol... Everyone on the cavs not named LeBron is shit. Deal with it. It's funny that you are so deluded still by this. The team brings in no one to remotely help LeBron, and he through his own force of will makes shit players look decent. But like I said, none of those fucks is starting for any other team in the NBA, even the shitasitc Nets. Visably Shaken Member Sat Feb 06 22:23:25 kthx licker Sports Mod Sun Feb 07 09:39:28 bye Visably Shaken Member Thu Feb 11 22:57:40 So...that's, what, 13 wins in a row? licker Sports Mod Thu Feb 11 22:58:24 *yawn* wake us up when they win 13 in a row in the post season Madc0w Member Thu Feb 11 23:09:02 Capitals won 14 in a row. kpwnt Milton Bradley Member Fri Feb 12 20:22:07 2006-2007 Suns won 17 in a row, lost 1 game, and then won 15 in a row. And they didnt even make it out of the 2nd round. licker Sports Mod Thu Feb 18 22:21:12 Cavs got fucking owned by a real team. Just like what will happen in the playoffs. Palem Person. Thu Feb 18 22:52:55 We beat the lakers twice. They aren't a real team? Losing in overtime is getting owned? go away Dakyron Member Fri Feb 19 09:35:57 Losing is losing. Losing at home = getting owned. LBJ - 43 pts, 13 rebounds, 15 assists and you still lose because the rest of your team sucks. Imagine if he had a real team. Palem Person. Fri Feb 19 13:17:31 Where did I say they didn't lose? They played a good team, played a good game, and lost. Shit happens. Getting owned = losing by 20. Not by 2 in overtime. If you're gonna be a jackass do it somewhere else. licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 19 14:02:54 lol... my how touchy the cavs fans are about this. the team runs off a bunch of wins against crap teams, plays a good team, lebron has one of the best games in the history of the league, and they still lose why? because like we've been saying after lebron that team doesn't have a single player who would start for anyone else, they suck and now you're banking on a 50 year old jamison to help out? lol... so screwed, so fucking screwed Palem Person. Fri Feb 19 14:26:11 You must think there's only 1 good team in the league or something. The cavs beat plenty of good times on that streak. Mo is damn good. Shaq is one of the best players of this decade. Parker is damn good. Maybe if you actually watched some of the games and not just the highlights, you'd know some of this. We're relying on Jamison? LOL. We were one of the best teams in the league before we got him, and now we're relying on him? Right. We get it. You don't like the cavs. Go away. Dakyron Member Fri Feb 19 14:32:40 Shaq sucks. Whatever he provides on offense is lost on his pathetic defense. I watched him all of last year. The Suns traded Shawn Marion for Shaq and went from 1st place to 9th place. 'nuff said about the big adulterer. Mo Williams can hit a wide open. So can 90% of the NBA. Congrats on finding a player who doesnt completely suck, I know its unusual to do so in Cleveland. Anthony Parker was a bench player on the Raptors. He serves his role well. Basically, he tries on defense and makes open 3s. So can plenty of other players. He is nothing special. Antawn Jamison is 33 years old. He isnt terrible, but this is the best player on a lottery team the last two years. He was a 6th man when he played in Dallas. Nice pickup, but dont kid yourself. The fact is that if LeBron James broke his leg tomorrow, the Cavs wouldnt make it out of the first round. We both know this. Palem Person. Fri Feb 19 14:39:21 I'm not denying that. But it's not like the cavs without Lebron would become the nets. They have quality players that do their jobs. Shaq's job is to be a big, physical body on the boards and he goes that. Mo, West, and Parker's jobs are to get open and hit 3's when people try to double/triple team lebron and they do that. Do the Cavs have a MJ-Bulls-like team yet? Even I have to say hell no, but they're getting there. They're a hell of a lot better off than they were 2 years ago as far as players outside of Lebron. Palem Person. Fri Feb 19 14:40:06 he does* that Dakyron Member Fri Feb 19 14:45:19 "But it's not like the cavs without Lebron would become the nets" The Nets are statistically the worst team in the NBA. No, the Cavs - LBJ would be like the Wizards. Shitty, but capable of beating mediocre teams on a good night. "Shaq's job is to be a big, physical body on the boards and he goes that. " Yeah, I suppose thats why Denver killed the Cavs on the boards last night. Kenyon Martin's corpse grabbed 17 rebounds. Like I said, I watched Shaq play last season. He has a monster game about once every two weeks. Similarly, he sucks on back to backs or long road trips. Palem Person. Fri Feb 19 14:50:02 He's getting old, what do you expect? licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 19 17:36:20 "You must think there's only 1 good team in the league or something." Actually right now I think there are zero good teams considering that Kobe seems to be more hurt than they are telling anyone. But to the point, I think that there are probably 4-5 better teams than the Cavs right now, and certainly who will be able to beat them in the playoffs unless LeBron is able to have 16 dominate games in him where the shittyness of his teammates doesn't even matter. "Mo is damn good. " roflmao... Mo Peterson? Oh you mean that sack of shit Williams who disappears in big games, but can light it up when no one guards him and there's no pressure. "Shaq is one of the best players of this decade. " Umm... What the fuck does that have to do with the Shaq of 2010? "Parker is damn good. " tony Parker? Oh you mean that bench scrub. Wow, you listed a whopping 3! players 2 of whom outright suck and one of whom provides hustle. Great, like I said, LeBrons supporting cast SUCKS and would be starting anywhere (and didn't start anywhere if you remember). "Maybe if you actually watched some of the games and not just the highlights, you'd know some of this. " Maybe if you didn't have your homer goggles on you'd realize just how litte Cleveland has actually done to give LeBron any meaningful support. fuck, the Cavs don't suck, but their players starting with their 2nd best certainly do. "We're relying on Jamison? LOL. We were one of the best teams in the league before we got him, and now we're relying on him? " LTR. you are relying on him to provide that #2 punch that the Cavs have never had. Never. Clearly everyone here thinks the Cavs will go into the playoffs with the #1 seed (in the east anyway), but that as soon as they have to play a 7 game series against another top4 team they will get exposed. Because while LeBron can win you a game here or there on his own, it's much harder to win 4 out of 7 when the rest of your team isn't giving you shit. Remember what happened last season? And the season before? Fuck the Cavs were 'better' than the Magic, by far, everyone thought so. Until they played and everyone realized that the Cavs couldn't do shit unless LeBron did it all. Same story, different year. Simply put, the Cavs have not added anyone who makes a difference. "We get it. You don't like the cavs. Go away. " I don't like the Cavs actually, but I like LeBron and think its a travesty that they refuse to find him decent players to help him. Look at the Lakers after Shaq left. Kobe was the best in the NBA but they couldn't do shit until they brought in Gasol. With Gasol they are the best team in the NBA (when everyone is healthy), and that sucks, because I really do hate the Lakers. But they have good management and a good coach. They aren't fucking retarded doing nothing and hoping their stud can carry a bunch of bench scrubs to a championship. Well they tried it for a couple years, and then realized it wasn't working so they fixed the problem. The Cavs are going to lose LeBron and it's their own damn stupid fault. licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 19 17:37:20 " and would be starting anywhere " *wouldn't licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 19 20:45:58 And now a blow out against Charlotte... You see what we're telling you? If LeBron is off at all that team is toast. Dakyron Member Mon Feb 22 09:47:43 Cavs lost to the Magic... again... licker Sports Mod Mon Feb 22 13:49:35 lol... poor Palem, starts defending his team and they immediately go out and drop 3 games Hey at least you're better than Boston though. The Celtics suck this year. Visibly Shaken Member Wed Feb 24 02:58:28 James, Jamison end Cavsâ?? skid with win vs. Hornets Visably Shaken Member Fri Feb 26 00:37:31 Visably Shaken Member Fri Feb 26 00:38:25 Nice win over the celtics. licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 26 09:23:23 The celtics suck, don't let their record fool you. They beat up on crap teams and stink against good teams. Dakyron Member Fri Feb 26 09:54:55 Celtics team is collectively older than Gandalf. Palem Person. Fri Feb 26 10:55:38 The Cavs haven't played a good basketball game since the break. Visibly Shaken Member Fri Feb 26 20:38:57 They're getting on track again...and Z is gonna be back! Visibly Shaken Member Sat Feb 27 21:42:53 I guess boston does suck, licker. licker Sports Mod Sat Feb 27 22:40:57 They totally suck. Old and that locker room is being ripped in two because the old farts don't realize that Rondo is the future. If they win a round in the playoffs I'll be surprised. Palem Person. Sat Feb 27 22:58:01 They'll have to play a team that they can sweep. If it goes past 5 games, they've got no chance in hell. Visibly Shaken Member Tue Mar 02 03:00:21 Shaq who? Of course 74 points in a half against the knicks is ok. Who really thinks LBJ is gonna bolt this summer? It ain't happening. In fact, watch dwayne wade come to cleveland, haha. licker Sports Mod Tue Mar 02 18:28:25 "In fact, watch dwayne wade come to cleveland, haha. " Not possible unless Wade want's to play for nothing. Best rumor so far is Wade, Bosh, and LeBron to the Knicks, each taking a large pay cut, but Nike (who they are all signed with) giving them some extra dough for the massive marketing potential of all 3 of them on the same team in NYC. Of course I also read that LeBron wants to go to LA and play with Kobe. If that happens I think I may just stop watching the NBA for a few years. kendal Member Wed Mar 03 09:35:48 There is no way LeBron goes to LA. I doubt he goes anywhere in the Western Conference. Easier to get to the finals in the East. licker Sports Mod Wed Mar 03 09:41:14 Well one would think that playing with Kobe and Gasol on the Lakers would be a printed ticket to the finals as well... Milton Bradley Member Wed Mar 03 09:44:48 Too many egos. They wont team up with another superstar because one of them wouldnt get enough shots. Wade to Chicago, LeBron and Bosh to New York, Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson to Miami. Visibly Shaken Member Wed Mar 03 12:57:35 "Best rumor so far is Wade, Bosh, and LeBron to the Knicks, each taking a large pay cut, but Nike (who they are all signed with) giving them some extra dough..." How about charlotte? Then jordan and nike could really control the world? kendal Member Wed Mar 03 13:33:06 Charlotte is too small a market, and they dont have capspace. They are paying DeSagana Diop over $26 million over the next 4 seasons, including this one, to play 10 minutes a game of suck. Jordan picked a crappy team to buy. Visibly Shaken Member Thu Mar 04 00:04:04 Jordan wouldn't abide Lebron anyways. I was kind of trying to make a joke. I have faith that LeBron will stay in cleveland because it would lend integrity to his brand, and branding isd what it's all about. Think of the feel good story of a hometown god bringing joy to a depressed third world region! Lebron stays and another big name gets signed first. Somehow the cavs can exceed the cap to keep LeBron. Thats why the new star has to sign first. Wade could easily come to cleveland. Other than the town, it is a first class place to play basketball. And the burbs are pretty fucking nice to live in. I guess the weather sucks if that even enters into it. And as for media, how much bigger can LeBron get? well, a lot bigger. and in this day and age he can do it right from cleveland. Think about it: NYC isn't in china either. know what i mean? So fuck all the talk of him leaving. i don't think he will. Let's hope he has a little class left. cavs over lakers in six. kendal Member Thu Mar 04 02:14:44 I dont think he will leave either, but I dont think the Cavs can sign another big free agent on top of resigning him. Unless they do a sign and trade, but whatever. licker Sports Mod Thu Mar 04 13:10:35 " and in this day and age he can do it right from cleveland" Incorrect. Visibly Shaken Member Thu Mar 04 22:54:59 " and in this day and age he can do it right from cleveland" Actually, that statement is factually correct, unless you know of a reason why New york has any advantage in creating star power and global branding. Visibly Shaken Member Fri Mar 05 00:57:49 CLEVELAND (AP)â??Zydrunas Ilgauskas(notes) has forgiven the Cleveland Cavaliers. Feeling betrayed after he was traded last month, Ilgauskas wants to return to the only NBA team he has played for to help it win a championship. Ilgauskas, the towering center known to Cleveland fans simply as â??Z,â?? told his agent Herb Rudoy to begin negotiations with the Cavs on March 22â??the first day he can sign. â??The NBA rules do not allow any contract discussions until that date,â?? Rudoy said in an e-mail to The Associated Press. â??It is Zydrunasâ?? desire to return to the Cavaliers if a suitable contract can be agreed upon.â?? Itâ??s likely the Cavs will accept him back with open arms. General manager Danny Ferry agonized over the decision to trade Ilgauskas, a former teammate, close friend and the franchiseâ??s leader in rebounds and games played, to Washington as part of the deal for forward Antawn Jamison(notes). Now, Ferry has a chance to make everything right. Plus, with Shaquille Oâ??Neal(notes) sidelined for at least another six weeks with a thumb injury, the Cavs need the 7-foot-3 Ilgauskas more than ever. After being traded on Feb. 17, Ilgauskas never played for the Wizards. He bought out his contract from the club, making him a free agent and clearing him to sign with any other team after 30 days. But despite interest from several playoff contenders, including Atlanta, Dallas and Denver, the 34-year-old wants to return to Cavs, who drafted him in 1996. Earlier this week, a few of the Cavaliers took advantage of a game in New Jersey to visit Ilgauskas, who has a place in New Yorkâ??s SoHo district. Rudoy said Ferry also stopped in recently to meet with Ilgauskas, who has received hundreds of e-mails and letters from Cleveland fans urging him to come back. â??He has been overwhelmed and deeply touched by the outpouring of support and affection by the fans and by his teammates,â?? Rudoy said. â??He hopes to return to bring a championship to the Cavaliers and to the city of Cleveland.â?? Palem Person. Fri Mar 05 12:12:33 talk about spicing a story up, christ Z wasn't betrayed. He knew the deal just like everyone with half a brain knew the deal. licker Sports Mod Fri Mar 05 13:35:29 "unless you know of a reason why New york has any advantage in creating star power and global branding. " roflmao... Are you fucking kidding me? Visibly Shaken Member Fri Mar 05 23:00:49 no sir. licker Sports Mod Fri Mar 05 23:42:40 Ok, then let us know when TMZ and it's ilk open a branch in Cleveland. roflamo... Visibly Shaken Member Sun Mar 07 01:40:25 Don't really need to have one down the street anymore, or hadn't you noticed how small the world has gotten? licker Sports Mod Sun Mar 07 12:21:10 You're delusional if you think that Cleveland is remotely close to NYC or LA in terms of being a benefit for 'branding'. No one is going to Cleveland because it's Cleveland. Indeed the opposite is actually true. Dakyron Member Mon Mar 08 09:26:16 Any young millionaire who chooses to live in Cleveland is an idiot. No one could possibly argue otherwise. NYC, LA, or Miami. If he goes anywhere else he is just plain stupid. Visibly Shaken Member Mon Mar 08 22:45:32 No one could possibly argue otherwise. Palem Person. Thu Mar 11 17:40:43 -He has a team built around him already -He is from Akron -He has a city that idolizes him like a god that also has no other winning sports team. -He has plenty of money -He can avoid trouble the paparazzi -He has a crazy-ridiculous house in the area but you're right, he's got no reason to stay. Dakyron Member Thu Mar 11 20:13:03 You realize he could build a house anywhere he wants, right? Palem Person. Thu Mar 11 20:43:24 Yep. licker Sports Mod Thu Mar 11 21:20:19 -He has a team built around him already A shitty team. -He is from Akron Akron is not cleveland -He has a city that idolizes him like a god that also has no other winning sports team. He'd be idolized anywhere, and who gives a fuck if there are other 'winning' teams or not? -He has plenty of money Of course, but it's not about the money, it's about the 'brand', which is devalued if he keeps on fucking around in Cleveland not winning any titles. -He can avoid trouble the paparazzi Eh? Why would he want to avoid the paparazzi? Or, what other NBA stars in LA or NYC have problems with the paparazzi anyway? -He has a crazy-ridiculous house in the area Like daky said, he could build a crazy ridiculous house anywhere. Oh and, the house is in Cleveland, so that's kind of FAIL Look, he may stay, and if he does, more power to him, but trying to make the argument that he is better served in his 'brand' by staying if fucking retarded. Palem Person. Sun Mar 14 18:16:33 "Any young millionaire who chooses to live in Cleveland is an idiot. No one could possibly argue otherwise." I was addressing this. I didn't say he's better off staying in Cleveland, I said he's got reasons to stay. Visibly Shaken Member Wed Mar 31 23:38:56 "Still, James can continue to be a powerful force for Nike â?? likely in a place where he can win championships as soon as possible. If itâ??s about selling shoes and making more money, it appears like James doesnâ??t physically have to be on Madison Avenue next year" "Perhaps going to New York would sell more shoes, but heâ??d likely sell more shoes in China and other emerging markets, where volume really counts, if he wins championships. One of the reasons why James is far behind Bryant in China is that he isnâ??t revered as much because he doesnâ??t have the rings that Kobe has. In that case, it might make more sense for James to stay in Cleveland, who made it to the Finals in 2007 under James and, at 58-16, have the best record in the NBA." http://spo...s?slug=ys-cnbclebronnike033110 Visibly Shaken Member Fri Apr 02 23:24:12 So, fuck all you haters...when the cavs bring home the ring this year, that's it. LeBron stays in Cleveland (which, despite your ignorance, is not the asshole of the universe), and the sports world shifts it's axis. No longer does LA or NYC matter as a location. The world is tiny now, and one place is as medi8a friendly as the next. Fuck Off, licker. licker Sports Mod Sat Apr 03 09:55:40 " The world is tiny now, and one place is as medi8a friendly as the next." This is so completely and ridiculously wrong that I think you must have been reading all the latest crap on why LeBron is leaving, ring or no ring. Look, I really don't care if he stays or goes, I really don't care if he wins the championship or not (since the teams I root for aren't going to do it this year, or probably any year this decade). I have been to Cleveland though, as well as LA and NYC and Boston, and, well alot of other big cities with NBA franchises. And I can absolutely tell you that compared to these other cities Cleveland is indeed a shithole. Ok, so it's better than Memphis or OKC... Big fucking deal, the entire midwest is a shit place to live, cities like LA, Miami, Phoenix do have advantages in getting FAs because they are relatively awesome to live in. I don't know if that really is a big factor to James or not, but it should be, because who the FUCK has Cleveland brought in to help him? We already know the answer to that... Genocide Rod Member Sun Apr 04 10:33:50 tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt show deleted posts Your Name: Your Password: Your Message: Bookmark and Share Welcome to the Utopia Forums! The current time is Sun Apr 04 10:33:51 2010 , You have 0 new messages. Chat on the IRC server here Utopia Talk / Sports / Cavs are beasts! Visably Shaken Member Fri Jan 22 23:04:21 That is all. Visably Shaken Member Fri Jan 22 23:04:49 of course, so are calves. nhill Member Sat Jan 23 11:37:01 k Visably Shaken Member Fri Feb 05 00:45:52 Beasts! I tells ya'. Milton Bradley Member Fri Feb 05 09:47:05 I felt bad for Dwyane Wade watching that game last night. The rest of his team sucks so bad... Not only are they terrible, but they are also lazy and give zero effort. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I could start at PG for the Cavs and they would still win. Visably Shaken Member Fri Feb 05 09:59:52 Jumboliers picked a strange time to start a winning streak...what with the injuries and all. And Lebron starting at PG is just...fuck. licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 05 15:59:48 *yawn* Cavs got fucking owned by a shitty orlando team last year, this year they'll probably get owned by a shitty atlanta team. LeBron is fucking amazing, but the rest of that team is so shitty that I don't see them getting through 3 7 game series against playoff teams, let alone beating a healthy Lakers team. Then again maybe the Lakers will never get healthy. Milton Bradley Member Fri Feb 05 16:10:32 Err... they dont have to get through 3 playoff teams... Just two. 1st round series against the Bucks/Knicks/Heat doesnt really count. A 2nd round series against Boston/Toronto/Atlanta barely counts. Pretty much if they can beat Orlando then they are the east winners. licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 05 16:53:55 I think it counts, because I think the Cavs are shit after lebron. Their other starters wouldn't even start for the Nets, that how shitty they are. Milton Bradley Member Fri Feb 05 17:00:06 They are not that bad. Bad, yes, but not terrible. The Nets whole team is terrible. dung beetle Member Fri Feb 05 23:58:31 lol @ licker...just a cleveland hater. u don't know shit about nothin if thats yer opinion of the cavaliers. they own everyone at every position, down the line and through the bench. and powe is yet to arrive. it's a good team. true much remains to be seen, but you are a weak, pathetic troll licker Sports Mod Sat Feb 06 10:18:02 That's why cleveland with the same team as last season basically, got rolled by the Magic? The support around James sucks, all of those guys are washed up or never were's. If he doesn't leave it's because someone in Cleveland can blackmail him about being a homosexual or something. Palem Person. Sat Feb 06 20:26:13 Why would he leave? He has a team, build around him, that is good enough to consistently compete for the best record in the NBA. And the same team as last year? LOL. Maybe you should watch ESPN or something. They got this big black guy named Shaq. Visably Shaken Member Sat Feb 06 22:10:20 Definitely not the exact same team. and verajao is shit? williams is shit? shaq is shit? west is shit? z? moon and hickson and gibson, all shit, huh? Well welcome to shitsville bumpkin...you ain't gonna last around here. Visably Shaken Member Sat Feb 06 22:14:09 lol...I get it now. you've never even seen basketball before and you're just an excellent troll. That explains why the only name you have is LeBron...who hasn't heard that name? 10/10 Visably Shaken Member Sat Feb 06 22:15:51 11 in a row baby! man these injuries are killing them :P Visably Shaken Member Sat Feb 06 22:21:04 February 7th, 2010 | Issue 42â?¢50 | AP Press LOS ANGELESâ??Lakers guard Kobe Bryant was visibly shaken, angry, and confused at center court of the Staples Center Friday night when the basketball that he held so close for most of the game was suddenly and inexplicably passed away. â??It feels like I was just holding it in my hands a second ago, and now itâ??s gone,â?? said a tearful Bryant, who admitted he â??just wasnâ??t ready to let go.â?? â??I wish I could say itâ??s in a better place now, but honestly, Iâ??m not sure I can make myself believe that.â?? Bryant later promised that, should he ever get close to another ball, he would make sure that something like this would never happen again. licker Sports Mod Sat Feb 06 22:21:50 Wow. So a 50 year old 500 pound shaq is your answer? lol... Everyone on the cavs not named LeBron is shit. Deal with it. It's funny that you are so deluded still by this. The team brings in no one to remotely help LeBron, and he through his own force of will makes shit players look decent. But like I said, none of those fucks is starting for any other team in the NBA, even the shitasitc Nets. Visably Shaken Member Sat Feb 06 22:23:25 kthx licker Sports Mod Sun Feb 07 09:39:28 bye Visably Shaken Member Thu Feb 11 22:57:40 So...that's, what, 13 wins in a row? licker Sports Mod Thu Feb 11 22:58:24 *yawn* wake us up when they win 13 in a row in the post season Madc0w Member Thu Feb 11 23:09:02 Capitals won 14 in a row. kpwnt Milton Bradley Member Fri Feb 12 20:22:07 2006-2007 Suns won 17 in a row, lost 1 game, and then won 15 in a row. And they didnt even make it out of the 2nd round. licker Sports Mod Thu Feb 18 22:21:12 Cavs got fucking owned by a real team. Just like what will happen in the playoffs. Palem Person. Thu Feb 18 22:52:55 We beat the lakers twice. They aren't a real team? Losing in overtime is getting owned? go away Dakyron Member Fri Feb 19 09:35:57 Losing is losing. Losing at home = getting owned. LBJ - 43 pts, 13 rebounds, 15 assists and you still lose because the rest of your team sucks. Imagine if he had a real team. Palem Person. Fri Feb 19 13:17:31 Where did I say they didn't lose? They played a good team, played a good game, and lost. Shit happens. Getting owned = losing by 20. Not by 2 in overtime. If you're gonna be a jackass do it somewhere else. licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 19 14:02:54 lol... my how touchy the cavs fans are about this. the team runs off a bunch of wins against crap teams, plays a good team, lebron has one of the best games in the history of the league, and they still lose why? because like we've been saying after lebron that team doesn't have a single player who would start for anyone else, they suck and now you're banking on a 50 year old jamison to help out? lol... so screwed, so fucking screwed Palem Person. Fri Feb 19 14:26:11 You must think there's only 1 good team in the league or something. The cavs beat plenty of good times on that streak. Mo is damn good. Shaq is one of the best players of this decade. Parker is damn good. Maybe if you actually watched some of the games and not just the highlights, you'd know some of this. We're relying on Jamison? LOL. We were one of the best teams in the league before we got him, and now we're relying on him? Right. We get it. You don't like the cavs. Go away. Dakyron Member Fri Feb 19 14:32:40 Shaq sucks. Whatever he provides on offense is lost on his pathetic defense. I watched him all of last year. The Suns traded Shawn Marion for Shaq and went from 1st place to 9th place. 'nuff said about the big adulterer. Mo Williams can hit a wide open. So can 90% of the NBA. Congrats on finding a player who doesnt completely suck, I know its unusual to do so in Cleveland. Anthony Parker was a bench player on the Raptors. He serves his role well. Basically, he tries on defense and makes open 3s. So can plenty of other players. He is nothing special. Antawn Jamison is 33 years old. He isnt terrible, but this is the best player on a lottery team the last two years. He was a 6th man when he played in Dallas. Nice pickup, but dont kid yourself. The fact is that if LeBron James broke his leg tomorrow, the Cavs wouldnt make it out of the first round. We both know this. Palem Person. Fri Feb 19 14:39:21 I'm not denying that. But it's not like the cavs without Lebron would become the nets. They have quality players that do their jobs. Shaq's job is to be a big, physical body on the boards and he goes that. Mo, West, and Parker's jobs are to get open and hit 3's when people try to double/triple team lebron and they do that. Do the Cavs have a MJ-Bulls-like team yet? Even I have to say hell no, but they're getting there. They're a hell of a lot better off than they were 2 years ago as far as players outside of Lebron. Palem Person. Fri Feb 19 14:40:06 he does* that Dakyron Member Fri Feb 19 14:45:19 "But it's not like the cavs without Lebron would become the nets" The Nets are statistically the worst team in the NBA. No, the Cavs - LBJ would be like the Wizards. Shitty, but capable of beating mediocre teams on a good night. "Shaq's job is to be a big, physical body on the boards and he goes that. " Yeah, I suppose thats why Denver killed the Cavs on the boards last night. Kenyon Martin's corpse grabbed 17 rebounds. Like I said, I watched Shaq play last season. He has a monster game about once every two weeks. Similarly, he sucks on back to backs or long road trips. Palem Person. Fri Feb 19 14:50:02 He's getting old, what do you expect? licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 19 17:36:20 "You must think there's only 1 good team in the league or something." Actually right now I think there are zero good teams considering that Kobe seems to be more hurt than they are telling anyone. But to the point, I think that there are probably 4-5 better teams than the Cavs right now, and certainly who will be able to beat them in the playoffs unless LeBron is able to have 16 dominate games in him where the shittyness of his teammates doesn't even matter. "Mo is damn good. " roflmao... Mo Peterson? Oh you mean that sack of shit Williams who disappears in big games, but can light it up when no one guards him and there's no pressure. "Shaq is one of the best players of this decade. " Umm... What the fuck does that have to do with the Shaq of 2010? "Parker is damn good. " tony Parker? Oh you mean that bench scrub. Wow, you listed a whopping 3! players 2 of whom outright suck and one of whom provides hustle. Great, like I said, LeBrons supporting cast SUCKS and would be starting anywhere (and didn't start anywhere if you remember). "Maybe if you actually watched some of the games and not just the highlights, you'd know some of this. " Maybe if you didn't have your homer goggles on you'd realize just how litte Cleveland has actually done to give LeBron any meaningful support. fuck, the Cavs don't suck, but their players starting with their 2nd best certainly do. "We're relying on Jamison? LOL. We were one of the best teams in the league before we got him, and now we're relying on him? " LTR. you are relying on him to provide that #2 punch that the Cavs have never had. Never. Clearly everyone here thinks the Cavs will go into the playoffs with the #1 seed (in the east anyway), but that as soon as they have to play a 7 game series against another top4 team they will get exposed. Because while LeBron can win you a game here or there on his own, it's much harder to win 4 out of 7 when the rest of your team isn't giving you shit. Remember what happened last season? And the season before? Fuck the Cavs were 'better' than the Magic, by far, everyone thought so. Until they played and everyone realized that the Cavs couldn't do shit unless LeBron did it all. Same story, different year. Simply put, the Cavs have not added anyone who makes a difference. "We get it. You don't like the cavs. Go away. " I don't like the Cavs actually, but I like LeBron and think its a travesty that they refuse to find him decent players to help him. Look at the Lakers after Shaq left. Kobe was the best in the NBA but they couldn't do shit until they brought in Gasol. With Gasol they are the best team in the NBA (when everyone is healthy), and that sucks, because I really do hate the Lakers. But they have good management and a good coach. They aren't fucking retarded doing nothing and hoping their stud can carry a bunch of bench scrubs to a championship. Well they tried it for a couple years, and then realized it wasn't working so they fixed the problem. The Cavs are going to lose LeBron and it's their own damn stupid fault. licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 19 17:37:20 " and would be starting anywhere " *wouldn't licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 19 20:45:58 And now a blow out against Charlotte... You see what we're telling you? If LeBron is off at all that team is toast. Dakyron Member Mon Feb 22 09:47:43 Cavs lost to the Magic... again... licker Sports Mod Mon Feb 22 13:49:35 lol... poor Palem, starts defending his team and they immediately go out and drop 3 games Hey at least you're better than Boston though. The Celtics suck this year. Visibly Shaken Member Wed Feb 24 02:58:28 James, Jamison end Cavsâ?? skid with win vs. Hornets Visably Shaken Member Fri Feb 26 00:37:31 Visably Shaken Member Fri Feb 26 00:38:25 Nice win over the celtics. licker Sports Mod Fri Feb 26 09:23:23 The celtics suck, don't let their record fool you. They beat up on crap teams and stink against good teams. Dakyron Member Fri Feb 26 09:54:55 Celtics team is collectively older than Gandalf. Palem Person. Fri Feb 26 10:55:38 The Cavs haven't played a good basketball game since the break. Visibly Shaken Member Fri Feb 26 20:38:57 They're getting on track again...and Z is gonna be back! Visibly Shaken Member Sat Feb 27 21:42:53 I guess boston does suck, licker. licker Sports Mod Sat Feb 27 22:40:57 They totally suck. Old and that locker room is being ripped in two because the old farts don't realize that Rondo is the future. If they win a round in the playoffs I'll be surprised. Palem Person. Sat Feb 27 22:58:01 They'll have to play a team that they can sweep. If it goes past 5 games, they've got no chance in hell. Visibly Shaken Member Tue Mar 02 03:00:21 Shaq who? Of course 74 points in a half against the knicks is ok. Who really thinks LBJ is gonna bolt this summer? It ain't happening. In fact, watch dwayne wade come to cleveland, haha. licker Sports Mod Tue Mar 02 18:28:25 "In fact, watch dwayne wade come to cleveland, haha. " Not possible unless Wade want's to play for nothing. Best rumor so far is Wade, Bosh, and LeBron to the Knicks, each taking a large pay cut, but Nike (who they are all signed with) giving them some extra dough for the massive marketing potential of all 3 of them on the same team in NYC. Of course I also read that LeBron wants to go to LA and play with Kobe. If that happens I think I may just stop watching the NBA for a few years. kendal Member Wed Mar 03 09:35:48 There is no way LeBron goes to LA. I doubt he goes anywhere in the Western Conference. Easier to get to the finals in the East. licker Sports Mod Wed Mar 03 09:41:14 Well one would think that playing with Kobe and Gasol on the Lakers would be a printed ticket to the finals as well... Milton Bradley Member Wed Mar 03 09:44:48 Too many egos. They wont team up with another superstar because one of them wouldnt get enough shots. Wade to Chicago, LeBron and Bosh to New York, Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson to Miami. Visibly Shaken Member Wed Mar 03 12:57:35 "Best rumor so far is Wade, Bosh, and LeBron to the Knicks, each taking a large pay cut, but Nike (who they are all signed with) giving them some extra dough..." How about charlotte? Then jordan and nike could really control the world? kendal Member Wed Mar 03 13:33:06 Charlotte is too small a market, and they dont have capspace. They are paying DeSagana Diop over $26 million over the next 4 seasons, including this one, to play 10 minutes a game of suck. Jordan picked a crappy team to buy. Visibly Shaken Member Thu Mar 04 00:04:04 Jordan wouldn't abide Lebron anyways. I was kind of trying to make a joke. I have faith that LeBron will stay in cleveland because it would lend integrity to his brand, and branding isd what it's all about. Think of the feel good story of a hometown god bringing joy to a depressed third world region! Lebron stays and another big name gets signed first. Somehow the cavs can exceed the cap to keep LeBron. Thats why the new star has to sign first. Wade could easily come to cleveland. Other than the town, it is a first class place to play basketball. And the burbs are pretty fucking nice to live in. I guess the weather sucks if that even enters into it. And as for media, how much bigger can LeBron get? well, a lot bigger. and in this day and age he can do it right from cleveland. Think about it: NYC isn't in china either. know what i mean? So fuck all the talk of him leaving. i don't think he will. Let's hope he has a little class left. cavs over lakers in six. kendal Member Thu Mar 04 02:14:44 I dont think he will leave either, but I dont think the Cavs can sign another big free agent on top of resigning him. Unless they do a sign and trade, but whatever. licker Sports Mod Thu Mar 04 13:10:35 " and in this day and age he can do it right from cleveland" Incorrect. Visibly Shaken Member Thu Mar 04 22:54:59 " and in this day and age he can do it right from cleveland" Actually, that statement is factually correct, unless you know of a reason why New york has any advantage in creating star power and global branding. Visibly Shaken Member Fri Mar 05 00:57:49 CLEVELAND (AP)â??Zydrunas Ilgauskas(notes) has forgiven the Cleveland Cavaliers. Feeling betrayed after he was traded last month, Ilgauskas wants to return to the only NBA team he has played for to help it win a championship. Ilgauskas, the towering center known to Cleveland fans simply as â??Z,â?? told his agent Herb Rudoy to begin negotiations with the Cavs on March 22â??the first day he can sign. â??The NBA rules do not allow any contract discussions until that date,â?? Rudoy said in an e-mail to The Associated Press. â??It is Zydrunasâ?? desire to return to the Cavaliers if a suitable contract can be agreed upon.â?? Itâ??s likely the Cavs will accept him back with open arms. General manager Danny Ferry agonized over the decision to trade Ilgauskas, a former teammate, close friend and the franchiseâ??s leader in rebounds and games played, to Washington as part of the deal for forward Antawn Jamison(notes). Now, Ferry has a chance to make everything right. Plus, with Shaquille Oâ??Neal(notes) sidelined for at least another six weeks with a thumb injury, the Cavs need the 7-foot-3 Ilgauskas more than ever. After being traded on Feb. 17, Ilgauskas never played for the Wizards. He bought out his contract from the club, making him a free agent and clearing him to sign with any other team after 30 days. But despite interest from several playoff contenders, including Atlanta, Dallas and Denver, the 34-year-old wants to return to Cavs, who drafted him in 1996. Earlier this week, a few of the Cavaliers took advantage of a game in New Jersey to visit Ilgauskas, who has a place in New Yorkâ??s SoHo district. Rudoy said Ferry also stopped in recently to meet with Ilgauskas, who has received hundreds of e-mails and letters from Cleveland fans urging him to come back. â??He has been overwhelmed and deeply touched by the outpouring of support and affection by the fans and by his teammates,â?? Rudoy said. â??He hopes to return to bring a championship to the Cavaliers and to the city of Cleveland.â?? Palem Person. Fri Mar 05 12:12:33 talk about spicing a story up, christ Z wasn't betrayed. He knew the deal just like everyone with half a brain knew the deal. licker Sports Mod Fri Mar 05 13:35:29 "unless you know of a reason why New york has any advantage in creating star power and global branding. " roflmao... Are you fucking kidding me? Visibly Shaken Member Fri Mar 05 23:00:49 no sir. licker Sports Mod Fri Mar 05 23:42:40 Ok, then let us know when TMZ and it's ilk open a branch in Cleveland. roflamo... Visibly Shaken Member Sun Mar 07 01:40:25 Don't really need to have one down the street anymore, or hadn't you noticed how small the world has gotten? licker Sports Mod Sun Mar 07 12:21:10 You're delusional if you think that Cleveland is remotely close to NYC or LA in terms of being a benefit for 'branding'. No one is going to Cleveland because it's Cleveland. Indeed the opposite is actually true. Dakyron Member Mon Mar 08 09:26:16 Any young millionaire who chooses to live in Cleveland is an idiot. No one could possibly argue otherwise. NYC, LA, or Miami. If he goes anywhere else he is just plain stupid. Visibly Shaken Member Mon Mar 08 22:45:32 No one could possibly argue otherwise. Palem Person. Thu Mar 11 17:40:43 -He has a team built around him already -He is from Akron -He has a city that idolizes him like a god that also has no other winning sports team. -He has plenty of money -He can avoid trouble the paparazzi -He has a crazy-ridiculous house in the area but you're right, he's got no reason to stay. Dakyron Member Thu Mar 11 20:13:03 You realize he could build a house anywhere he wants, right? Palem Person. Thu Mar 11 20:43:24 Yep. licker Sports Mod Thu Mar 11 21:20:19 -He has a team built around him already A shitty team. -He is from Akron Akron is not cleveland -He has a city that idolizes him like a god that also has no other winning sports team. He'd be idolized anywhere, and who gives a fuck if there are other 'winning' teams or not? -He has plenty of money Of course, but it's not about the money, it's about the 'brand', which is devalued if he keeps on fucking around in Cleveland not winning any titles. -He can avoid trouble the paparazzi Eh? Why would he want to avoid the paparazzi? Or, what other NBA stars in LA or NYC have problems with the paparazzi anyway? -He has a crazy-ridiculous house in the area Like daky said, he could build a crazy ridiculous house anywhere. Oh and, the house is in Cleveland, so that's kind of FAIL Look, he may stay, and if he does, more power to him, but trying to make the argument that he is better served in his 'brand' by staying if fucking retarded. Palem Person. Sun Mar 14 18:16:33 "Any young millionaire who chooses to live in Cleveland is an idiot. No one could possibly argue otherwise." I was addressing this. I didn't say he's better off staying in Cleveland, I said he's got reasons to stay. Visibly Shaken Member Wed Mar 31 23:38:56 "Still, James can continue to be a powerful force for Nike â?? likely in a place where he can win championships as soon as possible. If itâ??s about selling shoes and making more money, it appears like James doesnâ??t physically have to be on Madison Avenue next year" "Perhaps going to New York would sell more shoes, but heâ??d likely sell more shoes in China and other emerging markets, where volume really counts, if he wins championships. One of the reasons why James is far behind Bryant in China is that he isnâ??t revered as much because he doesnâ??t have the rings that Kobe has. In that case, it might make more sense for James to stay in Cleveland, who made it to the Finals in 2007 under James and, at 58-16, have the best record in the NBA." http://spo...s?slug=ys-cnbclebronnike033110 Visibly Shaken Member Fri Apr 02 23:24:12 So, fuck all you haters...when the cavs bring home the ring this year, that's it. LeBron stays in Cleveland (which, despite your ignorance, is not the asshole of the universe), and the sports world shifts it's axis. No longer does LA or NYC matter as a location. The world is tiny now, and one place is as medi8a friendly as the next. Fuck Off, licker. licker Sports Mod Sat Apr 03 09:55:40 " The world is tiny now, and one place is as medi8a friendly as the next." This is so completely and ridiculously wrong that I think you must have been reading all the latest crap on why LeBron is leaving, ring or no ring. Look, I really don't care if he stays or goes, I really don't care if he wins the championship or not (since the teams I root for aren't going to do it this year, or probably any year this decade). I have been to Cleveland though, as well as LA and NYC and Boston, and, well alot of other big cities with NBA franchises. And I can absolutely tell you that compared to these other cities Cleveland is indeed a shithole. Ok, so it's better than Memphis or OKC... Big fucking deal, the entire midwest is a shit place to live, cities like LA, Miami, Phoenix do have advantages in getting FAs because they are relatively awesome to live in. I don't know if that really is a big factor to James or not, but it should be, because who the FUCK has Cleveland brought in to help him? We already know the answer to that... Genocide Rod Member Sun Apr 04 10:33:50 tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt show deleted posts Your Name: Your Password: Your Message: Bookmark and Share
Eikeys Ghost Sports Mod	Wed May 12 16:04:28 cavs suck ass. Everyone knows that.
Hot Munchausen Rod Member	Mon Mar 14 23:38:14 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
superdude Member	Tue May 15 09:57:58 They are currently one of the worst teams in the NBA.
Visibly Shaken Member	Sun Feb 03 07:52:05 Oy
	show deleted posts